90% of full hold on first points involve a Mercy


#119

People like OP characters when that character is still one that takes some sort of effort to play.

Base kit Mercy takes more skill than Valkyrie to play.
So realistically, people still like the part they always liked and a lot of people have always found Valkyrie as unfun because it steps on the players toes by doing what the player wants to be doing and doesn’t give them a different moment to have some slightly different impact.


#120

That kind of depends. A Mercy doesn’t really have an effective weapon. Killing her is more like cutting off her avenues of flight. If you limit where she can go, her last hope is relying on her small hitbox. Her pistol doesn’t deal enough damage even with all headshots to be dangerous against anyone at full health.

Ana on the other hand has some of the strongest non ult abilities in the game. If you land a sleep on the enemy Rein, they have no shield for 8 seconds. That’s enough to get 2 picks, minimum. That alone holds the point. If you nail a DPS, their team damage drops through the floor. If you get a support, they lose a massive chunk of healing. Not having Trance available is often the difference between a team wipe or a successful repel/attack. Even if she dies, a Hail Mary anti is sometimes enough to kill someone or it could be just enough to let your Rein win the Rein-Off.

Moira’s abilities aren’t quite as game winning. Her healing spray is like Lucio on steroids. 80 HP per second to everyone in a group is insane. It makes it extremely difficult for flankers to kill their targets unless they get headshots. Her yellow ball is free healing. If you don’t have anyone who can heal a Pharah, she can literally just toss it into the air and walk away. Inside of buildings, her purple orb is basically slaughter. She doesn’t even have to survive to kill whoever was attacking her with it. Her fade is one of the best movement abilities in the game, which massively helps in keeping her alive. If you time it well, it can even dodge a point blank Dva bomb with no cover.

Both of them have impacts on the game that persist after they die. They aren’t as powerful as rezing a team mate but the difference is that neither of them have to risk being in a terrible position and being immobile for 300 years and even still having their ability negated.


#121

Someone else had a big reply so I won’t cover much except:

Ana throwing a nade could still effect healing a team mate and damaging you. A shot could miss you and heal a team mate.

Moira can throw orbs around still healing. Moira has after heals which means there is still time where she is healing while not directly impacting.

They both possess much higher healing values and have ways that they can indirectly still get value.


#122

Numbers alone without context or understanding mean little to nothing.

With Mercy’s initial rework, it was crucial to hold on to Valkyrie until some teammates were dead. So Mercy didn’t take full advantage of her extra healing. Valkyrie also isn’t just about healing. It’s damage boost, pistol, and safer resurrections, and helping Mercy escape danger. Valkyrie is rarely used just for healing, especially when used for initiation. Damage boost is more used in the optimum situation for Valkyrie. She can heal more in a shorter amount of time because of chain beams, but it’s still the same as if she healed for a longer time with just a normal beam. Her healing was also reduced to 50 hps. One would expect this to lower her average healing, but it didn’t have much change at all. I’ll repeat what I said in another thread a while ago:

Now Mercy has 60 hps back during Valkyrie, which is a nice boost to her healing. But it’s unnecessary because 50 hps would suffice, but it’s still a nice buff.


#123

So now Mercy is Symmetra 1.0 in terms of where she is useful (plus a few Pharah maps)

I see that the rework really panned out well11! /s


#124

Mercy’s will never understand the full power of the rez.

If you pick up a Roadhog it’s gg.


#125

It’s because they want their multi-hero revival back rawrrrr


#126

I do think that a Moira and an Ana are much more impactful in a defence with 80+HPS than a Mercy with her single target 50HPS and Rez, sure she can rez another ally and turn a fight 6v6 again, but you forgot the enemy team still have the midfight advantage since they will probably have an Ana or Moira.
This is not being impactuful, this is having 1 impactuful ability, now compare it with the impact of Ana’s healing, granade, ult and sleep dart. Compare it with Moira’s Coalescense, AOE 75HPS, 300HP healing orb and primary fire damage. Mercy is way behind them, if you can’t see that you probably shouldn’t be talking about game balance.


#127

Unless someone dies in meantime, as Mercy doesn’t heal or boost anyone during resurrect. Ana and Moira have abilities, that affect multiple teammates, not just one.


#128

That is that too, Mercy is basically removed from the game for 2 seconds when she is using rez.


#129

I pointed out that their profile showed they mostly play Torb and they had 50+ topics created about how Torbs rework ruined him (lol). Overbuff showed their last Mercy game was 6 months ago or something. They privated it since and now they’re a “Mercy main” who spams every Mercy thread with that “Factually, Mercy has been buffed and not nerfed, Respectfully, My opinion and many other Mercy players is that she is fun and impactful” babble. It’s rly strange.

(I think Mercy is “ok” though. Her kit could just be re-arranged in a much cleaner way.)

Also OPs stat is ridiculous lol. As soon as we pick someone we just rush through because it means Mercy is rezzing and not healing… which makes it a 4v6. If you’re not taking advantage of the 4v6 window that’s your fault??


#130

First point holds generally only happen when

A:) the attacking team has a terrible comp

or

B:) In sub 2000 games where the defense team runs a really hardcore cheese comp like double shields bastion/torb or substitute one of them with mei on a map like hanamura

Mercy generally isn’t the issue in those situations (granted raising the bastion doesnt help your cause) It’s the cheese comps themselves and the fact that the skill floor to counter those comps is substantially higher than the skill floor for the defensive side seeing as turrets dont miss…


#131

It kinda depends on who dies. If you lose a tank the point is lost, if you lose a support or dps there’s a chance you can res.

But remember people die because they are out of position, so you have to go out of position to res, so not every res, even in defense, is resable.


#132

90.27% of statistics are made up.


#133

Just because the healing isn’t able to be missed doesn’t mean it’s strong, I could argue Brig has strong heals because he can’t miss with it. It’s still 16 hps for her.

Bottom line is whether heals are able to be missed and strong are unrelated.


#135

This person gets it. First point hold are so few and when they do happen, it’s for the above reasons. The second one especially, even more so when the attacking team only has a 1 to take the point.


#137

Other than a good Mercy, Lucio will outheal her (I do most of the time get gold and healing cards as Lucio at the end of the match). Practically only Moira and Ana now can be considered main healers and only because they have burst healing ability. Mercy is a niche healer and rez has impact if there is only one teammate down or enemy team is clueless, otherwise Mercy rarely will survive a resurrect attempt.
The main issue is that she doesn’t have any utility ability, her heals are too weak even to counter Winson while all other healers can damage and heal at the same time. Her damage per match is usually around 0 and heals are between Lucio and Zenyatta, this clearly show an issue with a hero that supposedly should be very good at single target sustaining.


#138

That can be said about her base kit as well. At 50hps every big name Mercy main EeveeA_ Titanium, Neptuno, Starr2d2 ect are saying to give her 60 if not 55hps. Their reasoning is at 50hps pushes them to only heal for the most part. Damage boost was something that EeveeA_ especially advocates that more Mercy’s need to use, said that because of 50hps there is not as many opportunities because someone is always crit.

Yes there is only a fraction of a second difference between fully healing a 200hp hero and a 2 second difference for tanks, but ever since her nerf she has filled the role of off-support than main support, even with Valk. Running Mercy/Zen is now a lot harder than running Ana/Mercy. If she has someone to cover her lower volume of healing she has.

I would say the opposite, the nerf to 50hps was an unnecessary nerf given all of the other support changes that were going in at the same time, Ana’s especially since now her pick rate is strikingly similar to where it was in S3 where she was a must-pick.

Now I’m okay to agree to disagree because it seems to be that case.


#139

Since Mercy could heal just fine without using Valkyrie, when she had 60 hps, they created a reason to use one.


#140

Factually, there were reasons to use Valkyrie even prior to the fairky recent set of two significant buffs

That said, some of these applications require that Mercy use her full kit rather than refusing to use parts of it as some anti Mercy players apparently do