5v5 was a MATHEMATICALLY FLAWED DECISION!

Yes it has, because mmr has only ever been used for matchmaking. It has not changed in ow2.
Ranks were not used then, and they are not used now.

https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23910161/

TL/DR

  • Your ranked games are formed based on your internal matchmaking rating (MMR), regardless of your displayed skill tier.

Q: Does my competitive rank affect matchmaking?
A: We only create matches based on players’ MMR, not the visible competitive rank.

You will not find any post from blizzard anywhere stating that they use visible ranks for matchmaking.

edit:

i’ll say however that blizzard has done very poor job at communicating about the system, and all the changes they’ve done in the last year or two. You basically have had to follow the devs on twitter, and catch up random twitch chats even.

Especially regarding the changes to decay / no decay / how do ranks update etc. And all the bugs the systems had early on in ow2.
I believe the bugs were a big part of why people “distrust” the ranking system so much, and i cant blame anyone for that.

And even now in s9 with the rank reset, they did not communicate all the changes they did behind the scenes. You only got to know about them from reddit or something.

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I will quote myself again.
What you say is not true, and you can’t ignore what I say to try and make it so.

5v5 increase 1v1 duels and negative impact on mistakes. The “agency” increase are more tied to new map routes, hero reworks and particular changes like passives, cc, hitboxes, armor and hp.

Less creativity, mobility more stronger and more overall CC in the game. That is the result of all changes combined.

I would rather say that RQ is the biggest flaw. 5v5 is more a matter of taste and a bit more aligned to competitive scene. Not tied to casual, tho.

More punishment on mistakes is not casual friendly. Neither RQ is.

While RQ can be more friendly to starters it’s benefit diminishes on few matches, roughly about 50-100 on average and about 200-300 on worst cases.

So, 5v5 is more competitive and less casual than 6v6. But by doing so, you lose creativity. Both modes have similar individual agency, but 5v5 punishes more harshly on mistakes.

5v5 roles are more decisive and those roles not playing how is supposed reflects on severe negative impact. While if both sides perform properly the agency and impact are minimal, being similar to 6v6, just fights being a bit more faster and less stalemates on chokes.

The feeling of more agency is more tied to more map routes and other ow2 changes, than actually 5v5 per se.

It worked like i said early on in the ow2. The ranked system has then been changed. Just like ranks match mmr nowadays, when earlier they did not all the time necessarily.
Maybe there would be some old early videos available in youtube.

So tell me what i said is not true? And what are you basing it on that it is not true?

I gave you direct links to blizzard regarding how matchmaking uses only mmr for example.
So you do not have to believe me only regarding that; you will not find anything anywhere from blizzard stating otherwise.

I have told you several times now. You have to read what is replied to you.
Your Blizzard links are worthless. The company can not be trusted for one.

Well, then i suppose well agree to disagree.

I’ll trust the developers more than anonymous people on the internet. And everything lines up with the system working like they have described.

That’s bad, due reduces creativity.

They did the same with diablo3. Some heroes had cheat death, today. Each class has one. In there works because folks can play alone and there’s no need to teamwork.

No hero should be viable on all scenarios, your team should make viable your pick if someone counters you. If there’s less players on the team, means less players helping you. So, you are more responsible to fix your problem. More negative impact doesn’t mean more agency, tho.

Which is why, in general, 5v5 increases the negative impact and barely changes player agency. Due now the player has less potential targets to go after if there’s a counter in the game.

You should neither make heroes be equal on playstyle or kits. That’s the whole problem created on OW2 and also by sigma and brig on their launch at OW1.

No tool should be good enough on all scenarios. That way you don’t have stale metas and more options. Counterpick and Counterplay is important, as much as teamwork. Due keeps at bay heroes in a way that not entirely disable them.

Pharah being more similar to echo is a bad thing. Similar to venture and reaper proximity. Not even entering on bad designs on risk/reward ratio.

If you have a hero who is generalist, you often shift the teamwork aspect towards 1v1 duels. At that point a game with objectives and team, loses it’s purpose. Becoming a generic game, which means getting rid of other elements who makes OW be OW.

On mobas works due every part tries to defend something, even without teamwork, there’s an easy way to have intel on the entire map, enabling teamwork intuitively.

OW is a hybrid of some genres, at same time, master of none. You can’t go too much on moba or too much on fps without getting issues.

As map design, ow2 is leaning towards moba. Way more than did on ow1, which reflects a shift from more fps centric maps to more moba centric maps. On hero wise side, they’re going towards fps. Which means they’re working on opposite direction from ow1, which were more moba-like heroes and fps-like maps.

Yet on this shift, they needed to re-introduce CC and several moba-like mechannics on heroes. Which means making heroes more aligned to fps being a mistake, otherwise they wouldn’t re-introduce more hero designs aligned to mobas.

The situation becomes problematic with 3 points:

  • They want the game lean towards fps, which is why the normatization of heroes kits are in place.
  • They’re needing to increase CC and moba-like aspects due most heroes being moba-like ones, in favor their so called fps direction.
  • map design bigger shift towards moba, than fps, due faster development time (design half map, duplicate and invert it).

Which makes their goal of making the game lean towards fps, making heroes bland and pretty much less creative. Making game styles being repeated and barely having different forms of heroes. Stacking on bland maps from moba-like genre.

That’s bad, due overwatch being a game of hero expression prior to any other element. Which was the case of the game being action game first, with elements of shooter and moba. Each new hero, folks are becoming less tied to the said hero. There are some exceptions to this rule, but most heroes are becoming generic and most folks aren’t identifying with them anymore. They’re not working much on story telling and linking folks with heroes.

They’re effectively changing the game and those changes are already being reverted in some fashion due how badly was going.

So, instead. In terms of balance, to achieve that is way more adviseable to simply work on risk/reward on heroes kit. Firstly going after overperformers and nerf them, yes toxic meta can be problematic, but overbuffing stuff requires changing the entire game to do so and those changes have way more potential to break stuff than actually help fixing problems.

If mobility is too dominant, you increase the risk of it. CC was a tool for that, but too much of it bleeds on other roles. Which did on tanks on ow1. Instead, increasing animation time, increase cooldowns and reducing hp can increase the risk associated to it and the inverse of it you reduce the risk of it. While if you reducing the damage you decrease the reward and increasing the damage you increase the reward.

Which is why, instead of normatization of kits. They should just address risk/reward of abilities by adjusting casting times, vulnerability windows, hp, mobility and damage based on what specific abilities does.

Which is funny due ow1 had less CC but way more ways to nullify ults than OW2 has. Yet, folks called ow1 a game that 1 button to win while ow2 is way easier to do so. There are less overall team kills on ults on ow2, but ults are mostly non-cancelable aside a few heroes and most ways to cancel an ult is often tied to ult abilities too.

Is funny that most folks enjoys more moba centric maps than fps ones. While heroes going on fps direction are effectively being revisited due how bland the game was becoming. Yet they’re trying to make heroes too much similar, in some cases, which can make the cast bland and show some lack of creativity.

On top of those things, they planned Juno which was an example of everything being done in a proper way of risk/reward management and yet folks asking for buffs to it became generalist, killing it’s expression and purpose.

Ow2, redefining what sequel means, are also struggling to find it’s own identity. Either it changes completely or not, is more tied to what they see OW is.

I would rather have a diverse cast with different abilities with their risk/reward being managed properly. Sym bigger hp, tracer lower hp, aligning pressure and burst damage by adapting armor and hp pools are examples of those methodologies.

Yet they also are doing normatization, by making more heroes being similar to each other. Reaper/Venture, Pharah/Echo, kiriko/illari, queen/mauga

All prior heroes had clear identity. Yet, now there’s another one with similar. Pharah rework is great but her risk/reward is not in a good place, because echo also doesn’t have a good risk/reward either.

No it doesn’t. Not by a long shot.

Yes it does & that is how it works.
Anyways since you dont believe the developers that’s about it.

No, there is definitely benefit to more individual impact if you actually try to improve and try to win games.

I’m not gonna wait to be carried and i’m not gonna let some maths algorithm determines my worth. If it was deemed 50/50 at the start i just need to get better mid game and give my team a 51 to 49 odds.

Why would I want to improve and win, if game will just give me stronger enemies and worse teammates as “reward”?

While you might be right in an instance or two, it is not the norm. Better personal MMR is more likely to get better MMR team as a whole. I am not so good that the MM runs out of similar skill players to pair with me.

And my focus is on my own gameplay, the rest is just fleeting elements.

Since my gameplay is tightly connected with performance of others, my focus would be on them.

This highlights a fantastic point which is mostly ignored by players and devs.
The reason most people play the game is not to rank up to overwatch league. Whether I’m in master, grandmaster or silver doesn’t matter.

I don’t care if brig is only played in gold or if widow is the gm pick. Not every hero needs to be perfect in every rank. None of the focus of the dev team or many players on here remotely contributes to what’s most important to me!!! MY FUN needs to be perfect, nothing else!!

I crave a game environment in which I can have some level of freedom and explore. Not playing counterwatch all the time and not having 7/10 games which are complete stomps in either direction. I wanna be able to flank again, come up with strange hero comps with my friends, and have fun playing against and with people who feel like they are as good as I am.

pls I’m begging for it

Another thing to add is the devs q-times graph which was in first dev blog post regarding 6v6 format.

2-2-2 role lock came in 2019 and at that time OW2 was in full development but mostly PVE, there’s was also OWL who didn’t demand many patches so that the coaches don’t get stress and the game with barely any content.

After all that they have the guts to show us how long were the q-times in the neglected game and the promised sequel who’s job later become to try fix the old problems in the worst way possible instead of giving us the content we waited.

If 2-2-2 role lock got the same amount of attention as 5v5 now, the situation would have been different.

That q-times graph only shows one-side of the fact which is the numbers but it doesn’t show the other side which is how we got to that situation.

5v5 fans, please don’t bring the q-times argument because casual and fun 6v6 format was scapegoated by OW2 and OWL.

Adding more doesn’t automatically make it less stale.

Yeah, I don’t see why this would change with more or less people per team either. Sweats gonna sweat.

Exactly correct. There are players in plat who belong in bronze, but if they actually experienced the loss streak to get there they would quit the game before they got to the rank they deserve. It doesn’t exactly work the other way, i.e. a plat player might think they deserve diamond but they’re less likely to quit because they haven’t achieved this yet and possibly play more when they think it might be within reach.

Likely related to divestiture aversion or the endowment effect in behavioral science. Humans value what they already have, more than if they never had it. A diamond player values being diamond more than a platinum player values the idea of being diamond.

Players also value the idea of being at least above average.

Essentially there’s a lot of people who don’t belong in platinum rank, being kept there because the algorithms have determined they would baby rage quit the game if they didn’t. These players need to be fed wins to keep them there which means you similarly need a contingent of players who belong at a higher rank but are kept at a lower visible rank in order to pair the underperforming players with.

Well think about it, if you face your hard counter in a 1v1 matchup - you absolutely have to swap!

BUT the more teammates you have, the more options you gain to deal with your counter. Either another hero can deal with your counter, or you can adjust your play style to avoid your counter.

If you have few teammates who also have to stick close to each other to play, and then on top of that you have role locks. Then you are extremely limited in your options and simply have to swap.

This made games not only more stale, and repetitive but also much more uneven.

Now I have games where 70-80% the game is such a stomp no matter what I do the game is decided.

There are tons of examples for this, especially since we had two tanks.
That one extra player paired with freely swappable roles just added what felt like infinite options.
Zen was able to avoid being countered by Sombra or other flankers by adjusting his positioning more forwards with the team. But with one tank and 2 dps he can’t survive there now.

If one solo hitscan DPS struggled to deal with Pharah Mercy, you were able to swap an additional dps or even an off tank to dva. Now your only option in lower ranks is to pray that you have 2 ppl who are good at hitscan or one guy who is really good. If your DPS can’t swap, the game is an L.

It just sucks! The way it is played is so unbelievably repetitive and options have never been more limited.