That wasn’t the case at all in the last patch, I don’t know how long it lasted (the game basically stopped receiving updates) but I played a ton there. I even played open queue a lot in the last 6 months or so and tank stacking wasn’t an all powerful strat anymore.
Yup. I was mostly referring to the counterswapping stuff. But most of the time, nobody wants to touch the tank until one or both supports are dead. Sometimes not even until they’re the last one standing.
Already dealt with.
Double shield only worked with Sigma/Orisa. They had CC to push enemies back behind their shields, could fire while their shields were up, and both had a secondary form of mitigation.
Ram lacks CC.
Rein lacks a second form of mitigation and cannot fire while his shield is up.
Mauga’s shield is tied to his ult, which also cuts off his CC and limits his movement.
Winton lacks a second form of mitigation, not to mention he does tickle damage.
Orisa 2.0 still has those traits, but her kit is designed to be selfish now. She can’t protect her team with javelin spin the same way she could with her shield.
More importantly, there are even more options for dealing with double shield now even if it still existed. More divers and more brawlers to simply waltz right through the shields, not to mention more characters to form shield break comps.
Replacing it is a terrible idea. Having both in the game is the only way to avoid the queue time issue.
Both playerbases are happy and are willing to occasionally play the other format. Replacing 5v5 with 6v6 or only having 5v5 kills a significant chunk of the playerbase.
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Double Shields was not a 6v6 problem but a role queue problem.
Double Shields was NOT an issue in Arcade where you could pick multiple DPS to quickly burst down enemy shields.
Even ignoring that, it was only a issue at the very top of the competitive ladder and there was only an issue because “wah wah it made OWL boring to watch!”
Remove 2-2-2 and Double Shields is not an issue.
Almost all of the changes made to 6v6 that made it bad were because of OWL.
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Here’s how you immediately ruined the post.
You claimed 6v6 is the smallest crowd which isn’t true, or you have no proof to back that claim up.
And 2. no one has ever claimed 6v6 was a free insta fix. The whole point is that 6v6 is the better format overall, the positives heavily outweigh the negatives.
Like if you want to argue that 5v5 is better at least TRY to pretend you understand the game you’re on the forum for.
Like dawg:
Your first paragraph is you lying about 6v6 arguments, and then your next paragraph is pulling the immediate “I have no idea what I’m talking about when it comes to 5v5 vs 6v6” card, with mentioning double shield.
I’ll put it in caps and bold / italicize it so hopefully YOU and every other 5v5 defender gets the point:
ORISA DOESN’T HAVE A SHIELD ANYMORE. DOUBLE SHIELD IS NO LONGER POSSIBLE. AND ONCE AGAIN, DOUBLE SHIELD IS A BALANCE PROBLEM. NOT A FORMAT PROBLEM. DOUBLE SHIELD’S EXISTANCE IS NOT A KNOCK AGAINST 6v6 BECAUSE THE OLD DEV TEAM HAD A TODDLER WITH AN ETCH A SKETCH BEHIND THE WHEEL OF BALANCING.
Please, for the love of god. Educate yourself, study the game, before you comment on something as important as 5v5 vs 6v6. It’s imperative that you do so, because I couldn’t even be bothered to read the rest of the post because the immediate first two paragraphs are just lies and a lack of understanding the game.
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Lies do indeed permeate the original post.
I played Limit 2 exclusively when it was out and have played a fair amount of Classic since the event started and I’m more convinced than ever that 6v6 2-2-2 role queue is the only way forward.
I was pretty neutral on the 5v5 vs 6v6 when OW2 launched. I wasn’t for it, but I was more than willing to give it a shot and keep an open mind. And I kept that mind open through the adjustment period and through most of OW2 till today. But recently I’ve really been noticing the flaws, and they aren’t ability, synergy, or character balance flaws like in 6v6. They were fundamental flaws. Flaws created by trying to stuff the square peg of a single tank into the circular hole of fundamental Overwatch gameplay. Playing Limit 2 showed so much promise in fixing those flaws, in spite of being kinda broken and stupid as a 5v5 mode (it was just GOATS 3.0). Classic is also ridiculously broken, but also brings back some gameplay elements that have been missing in recent times.
I got good news for you though. Aaron took a pretty firm stance on keeping 5v5 in the Spilo interview. The only thing up for debate is if 6v6 becomes a permanent mode as well, at least according to the language used in response to the interview.
I think they’d rather split the playerbase than take away the game that people invested into.
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See I always thought this was funny like “oh we don’t want to get rid of 5v5 players!”
Although CLEARLY they did not have this sentiment before when they ripped away the game people loved from OW1 players and brought up the slop that is OW2. Clearly they weren’t concerned then, but now when it’s the case of going back to the original game and back to a flat out better format for the game, now all of a sudden we need to preserve the playerbase of this worse format.
Even though I’m willing to bet money that, for the life of them, they will not be able to balance two modes at the same time. And for all the queue times pointing out they do, somehow there’s zero realization on their part that having 6v6 and 5v5 coexist will BUTCHER queue times across the board.
One mode will clearly be favored by the dev team, and so that mode will just be the main mode and the other is a secondary. The SAME thing that happened with open queue.
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You gotta remember the that the Blizzard that took OW1 away was ABK Blizzard, and today we have Microsoft Blizzard.
I’m not saying Microsoft are saints, but I am saying that ABK and especially Bobby Kotick were micromanaging blowhards. There have been some interviews with ex-employees and all of them have the same narrative: Kotick was micromanaging the game to death, constantly giving orders and then cancelling them when the work was done, and strong-arming decisions.
Jeff never even wanted an OW2, but Kotick demanded it, hence the whole “sequal” but not a sequal.
Microsoft has said they wanted to take a hands off approach with Blizzard. I definitely wouldn’t put it past them to lie about that, but it’s not hard to be better than Bobby. That was a low, low bar.
I still think it’s just a flat out silly decision to try and preserve the 5v5 game and it’s playerbase. They just need to come out and say “Hey! We made a bad decision with 5v5, it hasn’t worked at all, the changes implemented haven’t helped, and we’re going back.”
That’s it. Overwatch can always gain new players from 5v5ers who leave although I’m sure a LOT will stay because after actually playing it they’ll realize it’s a flat out better game.
Because they will not be able to balance both formats at the same time and they will absolutely destroy queue times trying to have both. Just go back to what we know actually works with competent balancing.
6v6 problem’s were from a lack of balancing. 5v5 has had so many balance updates, certain heroes have more changes in 2 years of ow2 than they did in 6 years of ow1 and literally all of the problems 5v5 brought are still present 2 years later.
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I thought Jeff wanted to make the PVE, hence the OW2 being the said PVE experience, but then it got morphed into a sequel after realising they couldn’t deliver the PVE
You’re arguing that to the wrong guy. I’m just the messenger.
I do see a world where two games in one could work, but I’m not arguing for it, nor do I really care about the 5v5.
That came later. There are multiple stories from different sources about what all happened and the whole situation became a mess so I’m not going to get into it, the one thing that stays true between all the stories though is that Bobby Kotick was causing a lot of problems for development.
You need to understand that what you’re basically saying is that pineapple on pizza is amazing and anyone who disagrees is delusional and don’t realize they actually love it. “Im right and youre wrong” when discussing opinions is something 5 year old do. Its idiotic.
In reality people have their preferences, many of which differ from yours. You and many prefer 5 v 5. Myself and many others dislike it and prefer 6 v 6. Then there’s others again who couldn’t care about either so long as queue times don’t jump up.
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Bobby is the GOAT for being the big bad we can collectively blame for all the shortcomings
All the shortcomings? Definitely not. The majority? Probably.
That doesn’t guarantee Microsoft will be any better though.
In that case, I hate to break it to you, but SidewalkPigletTime is definitely correct. Pineapple on pizza is amazing and anyone who disagrees is delusional. It’s true. All of it.
Okay, but what does this have to do with our universal taste in pizza toppings?
Nobody serious about 6v6 thinks this. Although considering how popular classic mode has been (even when 6v6 was arguably at its worst state) it will definitely tick at least 2 of those boxes.
Double shield won’t happen anymore, because Orisa has no shield, ramms shield is garbage, rein was never good in double shield, better map design means there are actually flank routes, 2cp doesn’t exist anymore and more options are available that can simply ignore shields.
Why?
This has already been confirmed as what they are doing.
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You take that back! He is always a good boy.
Sure but not in a double shield bunker, as rein would you rather be YOLO charging and swinging your hammer or holding shield and relying on the rest of your team to get kills…
I know which playstyle I would prefer.
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Nostalgia is a hell of a drug. Can blind even the best people.
Preferences aside, and skill aside (yes, because 5v5 is faster and less forgiving), 6v6 “solves” one thing and brings 3 additional problems (specially with RQ) and thats a fact.
Implementing it back would be introducing more problems for no reason at all because that nostalgia will wear off in a few days/weeks max.