ok and your opinion that removing a tank somehow makes the game more complex or in depth is just wrong. you can like it more, because fps players don’t like thinking, but it’s objectively true that the game has less depth and interactions. remove the queen from chess and actually it’ll be more about individual impact of the other pieces, and more plays and action because the queen won’t be blocking so many plays!
yeah i suppose, but it would make chess certainly shallower.
it went F2P and it’s a blizzard IP, of course the game is going to explode after a 2year content drought. it’ll take months or years to know the effects once the shiny new toy thing wears off. Before the season 2 patch it was averaging under 30k viewers on twitch, that was about the numbers of OW1 before the content drought. So…
What is with people just creating their own arguments to argue against?
I never said 5v5 makes the game more complex or more in depth
What I disagree with, which is why almost all of what you said was your opinion instead of fact, is that 5v5 is less engaging or exciting, I disagree that there’s less action, less thought, I disagree that it’s not better, and I disagree that 5v5 is for people who hate using their brain or counterplay.
Almost everything you said was your opinion. The only factual thing you said is that there’s less pieces/interactions/ultimates/heroes/information to account for. That and only that is objectively true, but you said the game is objectively less exciting/engaging and that 5v5 is for people who hate using their brain, and that is an opinion.
In many ways 6v6 was far more braindead most of the time. There was so much cushion for everyone because of 2 tanks per team which made a lot of people not actually learn how to play the game at a high level because they were always so safe
If you want I can put words in your mouth too, but I’d prefer we not do that.
Engaging or exciting is opinion yes. Less action and thought, that’s just an objective fact.
There are less players, less weapons, less ultimates, less space contested, less health pools, less abilities, etc
You arguing that that makes the game MORE action packed and MORE strategic is just incorrect. You just want to dash in, get POTG, teamwipe, say something about double shield and individual skill, and turn your brain off. Any argument you make in favor of how 5v5 requires you to use your brain, coordinate with your team, time your engagements, and position properly exist in a 6v6 enviroment also.
I’m a Masters player don’t cope with the “everyone wants to just stand behind shields!!” I don’t look at the game from a gold perspective
Incorrect.
True.
In many cases OW2 is more action packed than OW1. Didn’t say anything about strategy.
Can I start putting words in your mouth now?
You just want to turn your brain off and sit behind 2 tanks. I don’t really mean that, but do you see how stupid it would be of me to do what you’re doing?
Can you chill out? You’re freaking out putting words in my mouth that I never said. This isn’t going to go anywhere if you can’t keep your emotions in check bud.
Just admit that you like the game when it’s easier to make plays on Tank and DPS and you don’t have to think of so many checks and balances. There’s nothing wrong with that, just stop coping about how it somehow made the game this 5D chess match that OW1 was holding it back from with two tanks.
I do like the game when it’s easier to make plays on Tank & DPS… what Tank/DPS player wouldn’t? But I also like the game as support too because I have a more active role in the game. Supporting in OW1 felt a lot more passive compared to OW2. I play all 3 roles.
There’s nothing wrong with you disliking OW2 but you need to stop calling your opinions objective facts
I can’t dispute the objective facts that you have mentioned, but your opinions are not objective facts.
Lol no, 2 weeks after ow1 released and people were already abusing things like 3 Bastions and 2 Dvas. I agree ow1 wasn’t good at the start, but the players are not that awful and the fact that the matches remain the same for almost 2 months is proof that the pace of the game is non existant. And they just threw 5 years of balance to the thrash.
??? OW1 sometimes had sub 10k viewers before OW2 launched. It was dead on platforms like twitch. At least in comparison to other FPS games. It was lucky to ever hit 30k. It averaged around 10k before OW2 if you actually look at stats.
I mean I’ve played both games. The amount of times I’ve had a nail biter where I need to log off afterwards because of the intensity on both is not comparable. 6v6 allowed for longer more drawn out teamfights with more checks and balances and wincons and potential touches and potential ultimates and absolute chaos. That was action to me.
Not getting an early pick and the fight devolving into the cleanup phase.
This is my opinion. But you can’t make an objective argument to me that by removing the 6th player, that you’ve added more chaos. Action = Chaos to me. Trying to make plays in the intensity of a drawn out teamfight, like 2cp overtime rolling teamfights that last for minutes is what makes the game fun and exciting, not a quick poke phase, a quick brawl, and then it snowballing from there because there’s less mitigation abilities.
I liked Tank/DPS more in OW1.
Support is pretty bad in OW2. Not for me, but for most of the playerbase it’s terrible. I don’t mind DPSing on support at all. But most people want to heal when they play support, not damage. And that was what seperated high level from low level support play. And that was fine. Now they’re trying to convince the healbots they have to do damage, they don’t want to do damage. They’ve trashed two playstyles, the heal first support and the offtank, to force 5v5 so that DPS players can have more fun.
no bro, before the 2 year content drought it was in the mid 20s
I still stand by the idea that tanks didnt need to be super strong to fulfill make 5v5 work. Prior to role queue, OW1 was frequently played just fine with single tank comps, and it was just the synergies between them that broke the game by providing far too much mitigation.
I think the idea that tanks need “to be threatening and have high damage” in order to make space is misguided. Tanks can still provide significantly value by disrupting, creating space for their team (e.g. barriers), having lots of mitigation (able to hold objectives for long periods of time), having CC, OR by being very threatening. But they don’t need to have ALL of these things.
I hate to break it to you, but twitch tracker says otherwise. Even in 2017, OW was only averaging around 19-22k twitch viewers. It stopped getting any viewer spikes after OWL moved to youtube.
That doesn’t mean players were good… they were cheesing the game. Players 2 months after OW launched were not great.
Whatever you want to believe I guess.
Well here in lies the issue… you’re telling me that I can’t make an objective argument because of how you view action. How you view action is not objectively action… so again, still your opinion.
We can agree to disagree.
What are you talking about? It has always been one of the most viewed games on Twitch, even during content drought, its now when the game is losing more viewers than ever and its simply because the game is boring and tiring after a couple matches. Whats up with so much cope lately claiming that ow1 was doing bad and 5v5 was neccesary? Does everyone only remember the Brigitte launch fiasco? What about every Blizzcon full of people just for ow? Remember the hype for Ashe? No? Just me? Ow1 was insanely succesful until they started working on this scam.
As I said, idiotic reasoning by the devs. The dps also didnt need the recoil and accuracy “compensation” when we already got less barriers, the same than the game didn’t need to be 5v5 when they already reworked many tanks to have less shields. I feel sorry for the devs because they probably were left with a half finished build after Jeff and more people abandoned the ship but they clearly have no idea what to do.
My only qualm is making tank que times long.
I feel like it adds importance to the awareness the tank needs to have for their team and seeing how about 50% of tanks are clueless when it comes to that - maybe we’ll have better tank players in a few seasons
And I do enjoy how quick some of the games can be now. With the crap matchmaking we have to deal with, if your team has a bad tank the game is over SO fast. Good. I don’t want to sit there trying to play a game I know I’m going to lose. In 6v6 if you had a tank that was brutal, chances are that the other tank would still try to hold it together and just make the game drag. I can recognize a loss in the first fight lol just take the L and try your luck next game
That’s not how other’s see it. A lot prefer it cause they’re not playing CoD-like speed battle. It was more tactical and less in your face action.
Compared to OW2, OW1 was a slow paced slog.
5v5 makes other Arcade games unfun. TDM and DM aren’t fun anymore where tanks are dominating and too many are playing them.
I tried with role queque and that sucks. Free role on rank is much better, since you can “carry” in rank, but role queue if one tank player doesnt know whats purpose of tank especially starting on low elo, you are screwed.