2/2/2, 1/3/2, no matter what the devs are going to do, a chunk will be unhappy

That would be fine. Because why I hate 1-3-2. Zarya was made dumb.

If it were only support and tank players, it wouldn’t be a large part of the playerbase. By various calculations, the DPS players comprise from 70 to 95% of the population. (The deviation is so large because we don’t have enough information about contributing factors and statistics for a proper computational model. The simplest formula using the only available hard numbers – comparing queue times across multiple ranks – suggests upwards of 90% of players queuing for DPS, but it’s incredibly crude.) Even if every single support and tank player was for role queue, they would still be a small minority. But like in everything else, opinions were split: I’m a tank main since season 1, and I was against Role Queue during the campaign leading up to it, for example.

The fact of the matter was that the main drivers in the push for role lock were DPS players themselves, who were tired of constant Mexican standoffs during the team selection phase over who gets to fill tank and support roles. (I’d like to qualify that assertion by stating that there were DPS players on both sides of that argument as well.) For over two years, beginning with low rumblings in the late 2016, players (mostly, but not limited to DPS) were asking for some form of Role Queue. At first Blizzard ignored them, then in the Fall of 2017, during Blizzcon, they put out a statement that they are vehemently against such a harsh constraint in their game and are not looking to implement it. Pro-RQ crowd persisted, provided with a voice and support from such prominent YouTube and Twich personalities (and DPS players) like Jake, Seagull, Stylosa and others. Seeing the problem as real, now, Blizzard tried to ameliorate it through less invasive ways, such as giving players agency over their team makeup with LFG, and incentivizing better cooperation with the Endorsement System; all to no avail. Then Goats happened and stuck around ruining high level ladder games, and, most importantly, OWL viewability, and Blizzard finally relented.

One of the unfortunate upshots is that while all that was going on, the majority of the players just played the game without paying heed to what was happening on the forums and reddit. So, when Role Lock was implemented and their queue times suddenly quadrupled, their understandable reaction was “what the hell is going on!” They come to the forums, possibly for the first time ever. Then they see someone say, “supports caused it with their whining”, which is not only factually wrong, but perpetuates a pernicious narrative that results in serious and lasting resentment between the DPS and the other two roles.

What is meant by ‘x/x/x’?

Honestly to make people happy they’re should be separated comps, one for classic and one for x/x/x, more people would play classic but it would be nice

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Not having role lock was also a huge frustration. People are looking at the game solely through rose colored glasses if they don’t remember the massive amounts of infighting because of team picks. Whether that’s because of 3+ DPS, supports or tanks deciding that the team isn’t doing a good job so they’re also going to go DPS.

None of these systems are perfect but in your average game you’d already be see ing 2-2-2 or there would be constant fights if your team was losing in a non 2-2-2 composition.

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Actually, we do know, as according to literally every single source of evidence concerning this subject out there, the majority of the player base are in favor of 2/2/2 role - lock:

  1. In one of the latest Developer Updates around the time for 3/2/1 Jeff Kaplan himself said that 2/2/2 role - queue was overall a “positive” change.
  2. Here are some official developer quotes that were released a couple of months ago:

And even more importantly, here’s the point where the overall very positive opinion of the majority of the game’s player base is touched upon:

  1. I have to admit this isn’t such a trustworthy source, but just the fact that the grand majority of the unofficial polls created in social places as historically negative for some reason as these Forums have surprisingly shown 2/2/2 role - lock to be a clear winner amongst fans, with the different concensus sometimes even touching 3:1 in favor of the system really says a lot
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I am aware of all of the items stated in the post I am replying to, and I remain unaware of any valid sources of data to support the claim of a majority

x = any number from 0-6 all adding up to 6, so something like 1/4/1, 3/0/3, 2/2/2

OMG! I was literally typing “in before Megadodo’s ‘I’m unaware of any valid source of data to support the claim of majority’”!

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No question they will. OW as designed is a game for casuals and sem-casuals, and as such those folks are not used to rules or organization - “its just a video game” statements come to mind. They want fast satisfaction and thrill with little to no real input in most cases to actually learn the game, or plumb its depths. Its cute eye candy where you smack buttons, see the pretty lights and watch butt cracks dance across the screen while musing who would ship with who and what waifu you would date. Any and all attempts to shape it into something more substantial usually gets met with stiff resistance.

It’s true, no matter what is done people will complain, because everyone has their own idea of how the game should work. The problem is that a lot of people think they are entitled to have the game be as they want it to be and attack Blizzard if it isn’t. I have issues with the game that I would change if I could, but I don’t attack Blizzard for not making the game exactly as I want it, I can voice my opinion on the matter if I want to, but I still respect and accept whatever it is they end up doing.

Classic megadodo trolling the forums.

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I remember the occasional salt. People (such as yourself) tend to magnify the negative experiences and rarely remember the positives. Giving them the impression that it was much worse then it actually was.

I’ll take increased agency and impact with frustration over that of less agency with MORE frustration any day.

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It was far from occasional salt, especially in comp. The only times people were okay with off the wall team comps is when they were already winning. Majority of times if your team was losing and you had 3 DPS, or only 1 support or only 1 tank or 4 supports people are going to criticize the team comp.

Less frustration and increased agency is a fine thing for people who actually know what they’re doing and whose agency actually helps the team win matches. What that agency was typically used for was outright selfishness or just switches after you’ve completely given up on your team.

In the hard carry period of Overwatch you could argue that this was acceptable, but in the age we live in now that is entirely team reliant you need a decent comp, not one with 1 support or 1 tank who is an off tank.

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You mean that you purposefully choose to ignore sources out there that prove the claim of a majority (which don’t include “community - created polls” by the way) , AKA literally all of them , just because they don’t fit with your own crafted fantasy of 2/2/2 role - lock’s supposed ““failure””…

We know you Megadodo and are eager for you to finally step out of your little bubble of bias and ignorance :man_facepalming: :man_facepalming:

for sake of clarity, I havent ignored any of sources you named

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Once again, your memory is distorted by negative experiences. I remember many experiences (far more actually) where despite losing people could clearly see effort. Especially if you communicated the reasoning.

The great thing about agency and impact is that those who make good decisions have longterm better results then those who don’t. In addition when a player is on the same team as another who makes bad/selfish decisions YOU still have agency and can do much to counter them.

I would much rather have agency and the potential to turn a difficult situation into a win rather then allow a selfish player STILL be selfish (because role lock has done nothing to really curb it. Just moved it) while I am less able to impact and counter their choices.

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I find it comical you’re telling me that my experiences were distorted. They’re my experiences. I can say the exact same thing to you, your experience is distorted because you liked selfish queue no matter how much everyone else felt.

This is how I know your experiences are distorted. People don’t care about your reasoning for 1 tricking Sym/Torb, insisting on being Genji, w/e crazy comp you’re trying to justify. Not this community.

Agency doesn’t mean much when more than one person decides to not have some semblance of a proper team comp. There’s no amount of personal agency in the world that’s going to change things when your team is running multi-DPS and doing a terrible job at it.

“Freedom queue” competitive is currently in the arcade. I want you to see how many people will actually play it and what are the comps they run.

Looks like the devs just added 6v6 role-less competitive to the game

I’d say this is another implicit indication, without anyone actually coming out and explicitly saying so, that 222 hasnt worked out quite as well as intended

My guess is that this will definitely help the primary 222 competitive queue by drawing off more dps players from regular competitive than it does from other roles

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You can find it comical all you want. It is pretty well known that unless you make an effort to analyze your memories objectively that negative thoughts and experiences tend to overwhelm the positive. Thus forcing them from your mind. 80% of a persons thoughts in a day are typically negative in nature.

What are you on about exactly here? The amazing thing about no role lock is that if I get a one trick on my team I actually have more agency to work around those picks.

When you look at matches as single instances? Yes you are correct. Sometimes you get difficult situations that are pretty hard to overcome. When you view them in the broader scope of things you quickly realize that if YOU are making good decisions YOU will climb along with anyone else who is also just as good at making those decisions.

Why? Because the enemy team had just as much potential for these difficulties (few as they were really).

Isn’t it interesting that despite all proclamations that Classic Competitive would never see the light of day we are actually seeing it happen?

Has some broader implications doesn’t it? That perhaps the dev’s are seeing some pretty serious issues with role lock if they are even willing to try it.

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