20 minutes… wow you’re lucky!!
28+ here.
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You do realise they are making the equivalent of load-outs for PvE, which may make it’s way into PvP later.
I think PvE is going to be used as a testbed for balancing stuff.
But to say “they can’t change this” when they are making a mode where they are already going to do exactly that is a little short sighted.
Not only couldn’t they do this, they are for at least one of the game modes.
You would think that it would drive people to beg for supports to be fun, but instead we get people telling the support players who are saying it is a problem to leave, which would make it way worse.
Nothing from PVE will carry over to any other part. Even skins.
Everything sold from the “PVE expansion” will be locked with that expansion.
They said this almost 2 years ago.
They also said roleQ wouldn’t happen. They also said they would “revert changes if they didn’t work, or fix heroes if the changes put them in a bad place”
There is no way in hell the PvE abilities don’t make it to at least some of the arcade modes.
Also remember that Ow2 was meant to launch with PvE, and that isn’t happening either.
Choices change, and they will have the code already there ready to go.
The chances of them not using some of the stuff they build for PvE in PvP is exactly 0.
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I’d say that Tracer was the start of the downfall of OW, and she was there from day 1.
Or more importantly, the devs team not getting in and making harder choices around their “Favoured heroes” has caused them more trouble than you would expect.
But I wouldn’t place the downfall at starting with Brig.
Hell how long did we have dive for, without them wanting to touch the flankers?
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“may” is the strong word her
Well… that didnt work for Sym.
Well, I dont have any faith on them to properly balance it out for PvP. Also they would need to have loadouts for ALL characters right away for it to be balanced, otherwise some characters would have more options and versatility than others.
Plus they always state how troublesome it is to create new assets for the heroes, they even said that Sym wouldn’t be reworked but it would require new animations.
But okay, they will have the “loadouts” for PvE but I dont expect too much versatility (For example: I think tracer will always equip dual-machine guns with diff stats only) but for them to have it with ALL characters will take a long time. I dont expect the first PvE episode to have all characters available to have loot loadouts, but I could be wrong, we shall see.
Even so, as the OP states that it is all fault of the role queue, I repeat: It is too late. with 5v5 and a Super Tank the game needs RQ to function. Otherwise all teams will be 5 tanks because they are super heroes now. On 6v6 with Normal tanks here was some chance to revert RQ but that is long gone.
What region\role are you having 20 minute queue times? Im having under 7 minutes as tank, under 4 as dps, and near instant as support
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See I am feeling safe there, in that I don’t expect them to balance PvP without the abilities being added, so it isn’t exactly a loss there.
But they will ALREADY have to do this for them for PvE, they have to build the assets regardless. So it makes sense they will recycle them for PvP. The assets argument is an argument FOR the abilities to hit PvP.
Have you seen the demo loadouts for PvE?
They are pretty big on extreme changes on how a hero is and plays.
Take some of the things in torbs tree.
- Flamethrower – turrets have a flamethrower instead of a minigun
- My Babies – place three mini-turrets instead of one big one
Heroes will get quite a few changes, and these are the scale of how the changes are.
They are very much like the loadout changes in TF2.
Mei has
- Snowball Effect – continue to move after using Cryo-Freeze, rolling and knocking enemies in your path
Rein has things like
-
Amplification Field – Barrier Field increases damage of friendly projectiles passing through it
-
Impact Converter – Rocket Hammer damage recharges your Barrier Field
-
Fire Burst – Fire Strike explodes every time it deals damage, lighting nearby enemies on fire
See, this is something I like. If it is the groundwork to test it first on PvE and then migrate it to PvP, it can be very instesting.
I dont care if it will be broken, lets think it will be fun first! Then we balance it out. But we need options and versatility to our character. This could be a good groundwork it just a shame that it seems so far away (at least to have all characters with those options).
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Exactly!
This is why I am pretty hopeful that we will get loadouts, since quite a few of the loadouts seem to be being made in a way where they could work well for PvP, and to actually work like loadouts in PvP should.
It would be crazy for them to do all this work, and then NOT put loadouts in. I can’t see them not doing the last bit of work to do so.
Especially given they will lose tank / support players to PvE more than DPS, and to get them back, they will likely have to put the abilities in PvP.
It is why I can’t see them not having loadouts in PvP once PvE is ready to go.
It is also why I think PvP is a mess right now, since they need a release, and I expect they were going to have loadouts as a PvP thing during the OW2 drop if they were not having to move it forward so much (and if they didn’t have so many delays during OW2 dev process).
Here is another Rein one from the PvE test.
- Fault Line – Earthshatter does more damage in a narrower cone.
Which is also pretty “loadout ready”
But like the PvE test was back end of last year.
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Indeed. it is a waste of resources to let it be stuck on PvE, Arcade modes for people to test it out in all its imbalanced glory so later it gets a little more down-to-earth on PvP (I still have little faith in them, they are terrible with number balancing).
It still an herculean task, it will take a long time for us to see it on PvE, even more to see it on PvP. It could lend the game into a more casual approach for it will be all much harder to balance but to hell with it, I always like TF2 and its casual play, I couldnt care less about OWL, let the actual playerbase have fun first.
Oh, Totally! The dev team will be working pretty hard for this. More so, trying to balance all of the abilities will be also super difficult.
On the other hand, loadouts are useful in helping balance as well, since you can tweak specific parts of their kit, without breaking the base hero, so they can be useful in that respect.
Anyway, I digress! (although thanks for the info, the loadout thingy gives a light on OW2’s future) The OP is talking about viewership and role queue.
RQ is set in stone now, for better or worse. They cant take it out now.
I think they COULD but they would have to put something similar in.
They may have for instance have QP make balanced games, by putting the same number of each role on each side, but how many that is would be based on how many were in the queues at the time.
You could end up with one support, but it would be one support on both sides. So they keep the “fairness” of the match, and make it not won or lost in the spawn room, but be able to help with queue times that way.
They still have a lot of latitude there for changes without dropping the bits which makes roleQ work for evening up matchups, and keeping role based SR.
And if they can’t get the roles balanced for fun, they may have to go down that path.
I would rather they didn’t have to, by taking the concerns of each role seriously, but I could see them doing this.
It is a reasonable solution for some of the issues role queue has, and still fixing some of the issues that openQ has.
They DO still have an announcement around big changes to matchmaking, so I wouldn’t be surprised if this doesn’t drop.
They would have to fix the 3 flankers on 1 support problem, but I’m not sure how they would go about that.
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Problem is the tank… the idea to make it a super hero makes it very hard to balance, An OQ game to be even if minimally balance would need to have just one tank. More than one tank is a mess with how they made their stats now.
So its either 1-2-2 or 1- 4(any Dps or Sup). There is no way around it to my eyes.
You could still have games with 2 tanks on each side, since while they would be raid boss like, you would have an even number of them.
I don’t think openQ can really survive having one team go 4 Tank / 1 support and the other run all DPS, the DPS side will get smashed hard.
So they will have to keep roles even on each side I think.
They couldn’t balance PVP and PVE in WoW thru at least Cataclysm, so moving stuff over would be a disaster.
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You say that like they can balance PvP now 
Also it is a very different game that world of warcraft.
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Yeah the team with more tanks will steamroll the other team without. So OQ cant function without some limitation to tanks, so in the end it cant truly be “Open”. It would be just a slightly “more flexible” Queue.
Totally, I kind of expect roleQ and openQ to both go away, and for us to end up with something more like an auto-balancing queue.
If they can sort the flanker problem out (and I say this as a Sombra player, who is VERY much part of the problem here…)