Work through that one again and see how astronomically high you just skyrocketed times for games.
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There’s no real fix that is possible. Role queue should have never happened. Overwatch was never built in that sense.
Yes, and many of us who were and still are against Role queue predicted a lot of people in favor of Role queue would regret it once they’ve realized all the issues Role queue would create. Sadly, people on these forums have a hard time foreshadowing bad stuff.
If devs wanted Role queue from the start (which wasn’t ever the case) and not just caved in to a loud minority from the forums (which devs did, unfortunately), they would have released more support and tank heroes at release but they didn’t.
It proves that 2-2-2 was never meant for Overwatch in the first place. The game was always and still is more than fine but people that got tired of losing or simply got bored with a 3-year old game kept throwing fits and it always ends up with getting Overwatch to a worse state.
The things devs could do is either backtrack but they never did, no matter how obvious the failure is. The only thing they do from time to time is making up for an undeserved nerf but it often takes time to go live and players that didn’t ask for anything in the first place (and that got punished with said nerfs) usually just move on to playing other games, sadly (but understandable).
Devs should now stop listening to the community altogether when it comes to changing the core of the game or nerfing heroes (what they softly call “rebalancing” the game). I hope they will NEVER listen to the cry babies that want Widowmaker nerfed to 150 HPS. If they do, well I guess Overwatch will keep on going downhill every patch a little more.
Really ? Then most of us have failed to see what.
Not really. Most heroes that were fine prior to role have difficulties finding their place and utility within a redundant 2-2-2 set up for each match. Less synergies possible between heroes as well.
Hell no, if anything, toxicity has increased some more as it always does after an idea suggested by the community (most of them were / are bad ideas anyways).
People now tag in a role they can’t play for the sake of avoiding long queue times or simply for earning Competitive points in all roles (so it makes up for the Competitive points they lost thanks to Role SR and less awards when it comes to the amount of points earned).
And since the matchmaking system fails to find your true rank for secondary and tertiary roles, you indirectly end up ruining people’s Competitive match most of the time because Overwatch’s system mix people playing on their primary role with those that play the one they’re the worst at.
For instance, I got placed Diamond in the tank category, just because I’m Master as a support. I suck at playing tank and lost most of my placement matches but the game keeps on placing me there, for some reason…
Still waiting for a complete balance patch to see the day of light so we could really tell if it’s easier to balance the game or not. And since we haven’t seen one so far, I don’t get how you can state that… 
Easier to improve at what… ? Most people are still hardstuck at their rank no matter the rank they’re at. Hard to say what’s improved there.
The only thing that Role queue has done was allowing people to camp at their rank if they’re above 3k. I can tell I have no shame just doing my placement matches on my main account and not play afterwards (since I don’t like role queue).
Role queue only made me buy a smurf account the day Role queue was released (so I can play with close friends of mine) even though I was against having one for more than 3 years but I guess I just got fed up with the community dictating their own rules and always complaining so I decided to act a little selfish myself as well.
I put up with most of the crap from the OW community for 3 years, I guess everyone has their limits at some point. Who could blame me right now ?
and? tank players and support players were okay with doing it to dps for what they considered “fair” why should the same not be done to tank and support players so its “fair” for dps?
do you legitimately not understand how a queue system works? The system is pulling 4 of each from the front of each line and throwing them in a game.
assume at it’s worst, tanks and supports can play 2 games for each game a dps plays. what you’re proposing puts tanks and supports on an arbitrary cooldown, doubling dps times.
Role que literally lets dps players play dps without having to switch because other people auto locked.
It allows you the freedom to play the game how it was intended.
More people want to play dps then support and tank. That is facts and that is why the ques are long. All the people who auto locked dps and never switched brought this on themselves. We had a crap ton of seasons where people had the freedom to pick good comps and not be toxic.
What happened? They forced people to solo heal, they forced people to solo tank, they switched off support to dps to throw.
Que times suck i am sympathetic i get its crappy to wait 15 mins to get into a match where its double shield so you can’t pick the hero you wanted to play in the first place.
More heroes are coming hopefully fun supports and tank so that maybe 1 day the que times balance out since more people would play those roles particularly.
If you want to help the que times play tank sometimes.
The consistency wasn’t really ever needed. Not only did 90% of games already have the oh so “mandatory” 2/2/2 (which is a seperate debate), but the inconsistensy made the game more replayable, interesting, and honestly just forced players to be more adaptable, raising the skill cap all around.
Which of course directly goes with the 4th point, easier isn’t always better. Dumbing down a competitive game is never a good idea imo. What’s the point in having a ranking system if you design it around the idea of it being “easy for everyone to climb”?
As for toxicity, that’s always a mystery to me how people think that was helped. People still hate seeing certain heroes or playstyles on their teams. Jerks are still jerks. The community isn’t going to have some major self reflective moment just because they have to press another button to queue for yhe game.
Better balancing is certainly subjective, but I don’t think many would argue with me if I were to say this is easily the worst meta we’ve ever seen. It improves in theory, but in practice it’s an entirely different story.
Wrong.
Pre Role Lock enabled major inconsistencies and selfish players within matches due to 4-5 DPS comps which ended up forcing some DPS players to switch to other heroes they weren’t good at and/or didn’t want to play to fill the holes and weaknesses in the comp.
With 222, you can queue up for whatever role you want whenever you want, long queue times or not.
… no it wasn’t. Now you’re just making stuff up.
It’s literally a statistical proof that less compositions equals less to balance.
And no.
Pre Role Lock didn’t stop metas like GOATS from straight up ruining the experience.
Remember that massive balance patch where they raised the amount of charge required for all heroes to get their ults? Didn’t stop Goats and non 222 lock enabled that to go on.
2 things.
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You are never going to get around having a meta. There is always going to be a select few heroes considered “the best”.
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They are already taking good steps to reducing the potency of the main meta right now by nerfing Sig and Orisa and giving good buffs to others.
??? Like actually what?..
Role lock lets you play whoever you want whenever you want.
I agree long queue times are an issue but long queue times or not, that doesn’t stop you from choosing who you want to play without losing consistency.
How does them being “lazy” reduce player freedom?
Also, how do you possibly expect them to balance around 5,000,000 different comps when they couldn’t even successfully pull it off with GOATS which was a comp that murdered practically all of those other 4,999,999 comps?
There is a difference between “laziness” and trying your hardest to balance something you can’t balance correctly.
“It took freedom”…
You have said that for like the 3rd time and have not provided any way as to how that is.
This is just a vicious circle because as far as I know, transitioning from pre-222 to post-222 was helpful for the purpose of playing matches without dealing with toxicity and and we can have a fair fight between both teams without the stupidity of GOATS and other garbage comps.
Are you kidding me?!?!
You were practically required to mirror comps like GOATS in order to counter it.
Don’t tell me you weren’t.
Yes it was. Consistency is what makes a game good.
And what? 222 was hardly ever a thing in the GOATS era.
And by “adaptive”, did that encourage players to switch to a different hero and stop playing the one that was getting extremely hard countered? Nope.
Not to mention you have just as much adaptive potential in 222 than you do in pre 222 if not more because both teams are equal in the amount they have from each role.
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I do, infact the que time model im proposing is the one that most mobas use, having a que “pop” at once placing all players in a match at once.
it wouldn’t double dps que times, it would just bring tank and support que times up. because it would have everyones que time fill around dps rather than a line being made full of dps
it would take dps , make them the highest priority, and not allow anyone to play until everyone was filled in around them, bringing everyones que time up to their level.
and in the name of fairness they shouldn’t be able to, they should have to wait just like dps do.
you’re not thinking it through. while the first set of dps is waiting in line, those same tanks and supports are able to play a second game with a second set of dps.
Tanks and supports would be put on cooldown, then be selected to play with that second set, then cooldown again, and then the third set, which would likely be the first set, which probably a lot of tanks and supports can testify that they run into the same dps every other match or so.
so sure, you didn’t double times, you tripled them. congrats.
or are you ignoring that there are actually other people in line infront of you that rightfully deserve to be put in a game before you.
No im not. Overwatch has started losing players at a substantial rate since role que, meaning it was objectively better before because more people were satisfied. arguing against that is asinine.
no im not?
DIve started being beaten by Double sniper long before Brig was introduced
GOATS started losing to quad dps before roleque was forced.
META trends didn’t NEED forced changes, it just took more time for people to realize how to beat it
NOW because of forced role lock heros HAVE to be changed to break metas.
Its also statistical proof that less options to use against something means its harder to beat. Meaning more drastic changes are needed, I can lie with statistics too.
I actually studied statistics in college though, so id be very careful with you trying to use statistics, because I will dance circles around you with data.
remember how when that happened the worst team in OWL destroyed the best team in the league with quad dps? and how that team got stomped by everyone running quad dps because they didn’t want to adapt? and how quad dps took over? and then hog orisa started coming back?
remember that? because I do.
Excluding things from your statement doesn’t mean others wont bring it up.
never said you would, but statistically speaking, meta is stronger when you enforce a role lock.
and the meta has not budged at all in pro play despite their efforts, when these efforts were pushed pre role que the entire meta shifted to quad dps.
no it doesn’t. it allows you to play 222 vs 222 I cant play 411 or 312 or anything else
I can only play 222.
look up
because statistically speaking 4,999,899 are completely unviable and will never be an issue no matter what the state of OW
and out of the 111 other possible viable comps, the meta will shut out 75% of it allowing for only 2-10 viable comps.
theres also a difference between doable and viable.
its almost as if they were all said in the same reply simple one.
guess that’s why clockwork vendetta, quad dps, dive, and double sniper were all successfully used against GOATS on many occasions in the last season of OWL then?
Depends on the game and what aspect you’re talking about.
I personally find the consistency in team composition very boring for this game.
In the ranks where the vast majority of players play, 2/2/2 was around all the time. I only ever saw Goats ran a handful of times, most of them unsuccessful (because golds can’t really pull off pro-tier strats all that well).
Does role queue?
Nope.
Nice strawman though.
Right because one tricking a single role takes so much more adaptability than it does to have to be ready to play any of the 3 roles at any given time.
Keep telling yourself that.
Right and they shouldn’t for the sake of fairness everyone should have to wait the same amount of time to play the same amount of games
even if what youre saying is correct, I stand by what I said, and think everyone should wait the same time for matches no matter how long it takes
after all that’s whats fair
nobody deserves to play before someone else, everyone should have to wait the same time. that’s whats fair.
the dps that got in line before you do not deserve to be put in a game before you?
or on top of that, do you not understand that there physically arent enough tank and support players to meet demands for the current number of dps players that refuse to play any other role?
Touche but we both know that’s not what was being said.
whats being said is you don’t deserve to play before a dps just because you pick tank or support.
no I understand, I just think in the name of fairness (remember your original argument?) that everyone should be forced into specific wait times just like players have been forced into specific comps 
You seriously cant be this dense. got it. flagged you for trolling. we’re done.
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hahahaha I use your own logic against you and you call it dense?
so you think your logic is stupid?
the way youre looking at my argument is the same way I look at yours
buy the way calling for witch hunts by saying things like “flagged for trolling” and insulting people is against forum COC