Just got back phone, reminder still in the middle of moving.
Gonna take awhile to catch up
It is a buff to damage because if they eliminate 1 target, that is worth more than 1 target in 6v6. And without a second enemy tank there is less of their damage being mitigated. Again another way they gain value.
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Flanking with hypermobility is why we got Moira and Brig, there is no doubt about this. I mean this is well known and discussed by Jeff K. himself in more than one discussion.
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I feel like we just got out of a meta of high damage, only to just get back into it.
Devs might be really trying to to cycle us here.
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They are open to feedback; that doesn’t mean that they can’t say no. They designed the game, with design goals in mind. They know what they want better than playerbase does. It’s same situation with Symmetra feedback and asking for things that Blizzard neither wants, nor does it fit their vision for their character.
And you have to understand that. Mercy is designed to be simple; she does a lot of healing for free and she boosts damage for free, with no aiming requirements; just basic attention. You need to respect that.
Not quite true. Typically, damage-role heroes are going to have higher peaks than Tank roles, but Tank-role heroes both have an easier time applying that damage, and split their focus between defense and damage. As a result they have “competitive” damage values with the Damage-role; but not necessarily deal more or less damage than they are capable of.
That might not make much sense, and there are probably other ways to communicate it.
Sure. 1/6th is less than 1/5th, and you’re right there is less mitigation available, but the balance is changing to a new standard so values will have to change as well. You’re not wrong here, and I can agree with it, but there’s a little more complexity here that I’m not able to communicate effectively right now.
Moira and Brigitte were in development during Overwatch’s beta period. Character designs in Overwatch take years of work to get through these were not knee-jerk reactions to current metagame standards going on at the time.
To further drive this point; Sojourn has been in development for at least 5 years now and is a launch hero for OW2. Assuming that Sojourn is in playable testing state right now; she’s been in playtesting for at least two years now. Plenty of time to understand where the metagame is shifting with her.
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Then they should be upfront and actually say no
The megathread had no direct replies, the most popular “not satisfied with mercy current state” thread also never got so much as a response.
She’s out healed by several heroes and does not contribute direct damage.
Again, she’s balanced but you can still make a simple character more engaging without over complicating them. Every hero in this game is “simple” at face value but carries depth when you look into them more.
Why can’t they be transparent about these “goals”
Please stop speaking for them on a topic they never meaningfully addressed. I’ll respect their decisions once they make them clear through a method rather than the action of silence.
Jeff was very passionate about the valk rework. When it came out horribly OP they simply chipped away at mercy instead of looking at the problem from a new angle.
The nerfs were 100% necessary but the final result did not resemble the Vision Jeff overtly discussed in his first intro video to mercy’s changes.
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u can check on overbuff
that most tank deal alot more compared to average / most dps
tracer average damage was 10.000 while sigma 17.000 per 10 min
im talking about stat damage here, not burst or anything similiar
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They are reducing both damage mitigation from tanks and healing output from supports, while stating that being one player down in a 5v4 fight is a bigger disadvantage than a 6v5.
I’m more than a little concerned that this game will be a respawn simulator and a sit and wait while the other team groups up again in spawn game. Doesn’t sound particularly fun.
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you say mercy does a lot of things for free, but is it really free when it comes at the cost of a kit with less agency? Baptiste has a bit of aim and an ammo magazine but is way more impactful and useful in critical moments. Mercy might as well be a necromancer, as in a clutch situation you better hope that player gets a rez window because she is not saving you with those heals. You can always use a Bap or Ana on your team. Also Blizz did a terrible job responding to the feedback, I think ppl would have been less upset had there been an actual conversation. Good news is they seem to be better about it now.
Are tank roles having an easier time applying damage due to their HP pool? Or the combo of HP pool and damage mitigation. Which tanks need damage toned down to match this.
You didnt say it but someone said ttk is higher now than when the game released, outside of a few instances most of the time a shield breaking or a bad timed turn around a corner did not= insta dead back then.
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I’m sorry which Tanks and Supports have One Shots? The only one’s I can think of are cooldown based one shots that are incredibly easy to predict. DPS one shots are on their main fire or quick cooldowns. You know just press right click with McCree and deal 300 damage. Or Widowmaker dealing 300 damage on her primary fire. Or Reapers headshot one shot against anything that’s not a tank. Or hanzo’s one shot primary fire. Or echos 200dps beam. Rocket punch and it’s 4 second CD.
Please show me a video of the beta where a tank gets killed in under a second of peaking. Oh there aren’t any? Must be because Damage has been nerfed.
They have literally said this. That speed buff passive they said they are going to give every DPS is equal to the speed boost Genji gets during his ultimate.
Again, the developers have said this.
Again, I’m talking about the passive the devs have talked about adding to OW2. And Mei won’t be the problem for tanks. It’ll be the hypermobile ones that can just ignore them or the ones that completely out range them. There’s a reason they have to give tanks way more range. Go and watch the OW2 Live stream, the tanks don’t do anything the entire time because everything can just w away from them.
Sure if you describe it like this, I can do the same for DPS if you want. (btw you only mentioned 5 of the 7 tanks which proves my point of the lacking variety)
You just labelled more unique aspects to a dps character than you could tanks and that’s funny.
But lets talk about playstyle which is more of the problem. In tanks you have 3 characters with forward shields. Two of them are designed to place their shield and shoot from behind it and that’s all they can do. The other one holds their shield and walks forward until they’re in melee range. Great. Well then you have two high mobile dive tanks. Both jump onto the enemy then jump away. Seeing all the variety. Lets talk about the highly mobile off tanks right? Oh wait there’s just the one. What about consistently high damage tanks? Oh wait just one of them too.
There are 4 high mobility flankers in the DPS and they are all played completely differently and all have DRASTICALLY different kits. There are three long range snipers, all played differently. There are 3 brawling/tank buster dps, all play differently. There are 2 flying dps, both played completely differently to each other. Then there’s the builders, two of them, both played differently. And that’s not even all of them. There’s 17 to choose from.
All of those DPS can be played with way more positional freedom than Tanks or Supports. Try playing Ana, Zen or even Ball like any DPS and see how bad it is.
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Exhausted from moving bookcases, bed frames and still don’t have internet truely.
Gonna check out for now.
But I hope we get some answers.
I will say I applaud how diplomatic his answer was.
We don’t want fights to feel too drawn out so we’re lowering healing across the board.
I wonder as a support main how this is going to feel. Like are we getting anything to compensate?
I don’t mind as much if we lose a little healing, to get more utility, but this doesn’t sound like the case with brig losing her shield bash and them nerfing CC across the board
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Wait how? Sigma deals 105 damage every 1.5 seconds on full direct hits with no headshot multiplier. Which DPS does that deal more damage than? Unless you’re completely ignoring fire rate and headshot multipliers.
Zarya only deals 75 per second unless she uses a full rotation of all of her cooldowns. Can you name a DPS that only deals that after using all of their cooldowns? I can’t. McCree deals 300dps on his right click alone.
Oh you’re ignoring that fire rate and ability use for all of them so you can pretend to prove a point.
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Probably because tanks have a higher HP pool and stay alive longer, thus messing up the real tank dmg statistics
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i was talking about damage stats
average per 10 min
less tank meaning less damage flying around overall
Reinhardt’s Charge. Roadhog’s Hook Combo. Sigma’s Accretion Combo.
Zenyatta’s RMB is 2.1 seconds for 240 damage (over 300 with Discord); this is actually faster than McCree’s FTH (but not FTH Roll FTH).
I don’t have one, but I can provide an anecdote of me playing McCree and using the FTH Roll FTH combo on a TABing Roadhog. TAB didn’t have damage resistance then, nor could Roadhog move while taking it and FTH did 70x6 damage then. Roadhog didn’t even survive through the whole second round of FTH.
A 30% improvement to 5.5 meters per second is 7.15 meters per second. This is still slower than Wrecking Ball; and Lucio under the effects of Crossfade Amp.
If anything, I imagine it’ll just be a blanket 6 to 7 meter movement speed. Hardly game breaking.
Blizzard said that the self-healing is going to be less impactful than the movement speed increase? If you say so…
All Tanks have range enormous threatening range. Whether it be Firestrike, or Wrecking Ball’s speed or Winston’s 25 meter distance crossing jumps. Or even 20 meter range on Roadhog’s hook.
There are four barrier carrying tanks; Orisa, Reinhardt, Winston, Sigma. If you think that all they can do is sit behind their barriers all game, you have a narrow view of what Tanks are capable of.
There are three highly mobile tanks; D.va, Winston, Wrecking Ball. You could probably include Reinhardt here, since, like the above, all of their movement abilities deal damage. Of course, Reinhardt’s is the one with the longest cooldown and does the most damage.
There are no off-tanks; never have been. Blizzard does not design tanks with the intention of them being “off”.
As for high-damage Tanks. Reinhardt’s Firestrike is capable of up to 600 damage (100 per target), Roadhog’s Hook is 30 damage with a shotgun of 165 per shot (the highest shotgun damage in the game). Sigma deliver 55x2 damage per shot; and 70 damage accretion. And 50% damage to all targets under Gravitic Flux. D.va does 146 damage per second with no reload time, making her one of the highest damaging heroes in the game; beaten only by Reaper, Symmetra, and Sentry Bastion (when factoring reload times). She does up to 1000 damage with her ultimate and Call Mech can do 250 damage, and we haven’t even gotten to her missiles yet.
So there are plenty of Tanks very much capable of high-damage and one-shot potential.
Let’s see… Tracer has a movement ability, Genji has movement ability that doubles as a damage ability, Echo has a movement ability, Reaper has a movement ability. Tracer has a defensive ability in Rewind; Genji has a defensive ability in Deflect. Echo has a defensive ability in Flight (the so-called “juke”), Reaper has a defensive ability in Wraith. All of them have wide-angled shots, three of them having damaging, close-ranged ultimates and three of them have vertical mobility. Seems pretty similar there.
Of course, there’s more than four flankers. Soldier and Doomfist and both them play pretty different from each other (actually Doomfist plays pretty different from a lot of characters). McCree also works well as a flanker, too.
Widowmaker… that’s it. I’m thinking you’re confusing snipers with Ashe and Hanzo. Ashe is not a sniper, and Hanzo these days, isn’t really considered as one given his projectile speed on his arrows. Ashe has a shorter falloff range than Widowmaker, too.
There are no Tank-busters in Overwatch. Never have been, never will be.
Pharah is more artillery style, while Echo is more stealth-bomber.
Yep.
Of course they can. They don’t have the Tanks’ tools or the responsibilities of the Supports. But it silly to think they have positional freedom; I’d like to see Torbjorn attempt a deep-dive flank with his turret.
He’s talking damage totals, which is fair, but misses a few key nuances to the argument. Tanks do tend to deal competitive damage with the Damage-roster, and typically have more survivability and ease with which to apply their damage.
Reaper, Hanzo and McCree would like a word with you
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Winston, Dva, Ball all constantly pressure supports
Hog, Orisa, Sigma, Zar, Rein all output tons of damage and pressure overall as well
Removing 1 tank VASTLY relieves a lot of stress on the game and takes out a huge chunk of damage output, especially when off tanks are often outputting the most damage in a match.
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An entire dev team composed of dps mains. What could possibly go wrong.
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This doesn’t matter when you consider the other tank on my team would (ideally) defend me of the enemy tank tunnel visioned on support kills.
Say what you will about hog or even Zarya but I’ve encountered ones that actually care about peeling. Guess what, removing a tank means the 1 less tank is defending me from 2 Dps who’s job hasn’t changed and probably just got easier.
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