What is the Most Powerful basic Ability

General Discussion
45

that is what the W is for, a good naz always goes toads and just puts them in the W with 2 sets of toads on their way, even tanks like diablo will be running with near death if not dieing to that. plus it is great zoning tools, and if fighting a melee character you can always easily shotgun people with toads, with spiders it is a all in gamble, you miss it does nothing and there is no CD reduction to it at least with toads you zone off an entire hallway for your team at least and you still have 1 more charge

46

Zombie Wall with toads is annoying, Zombie Wall with 5 spiders is a kill.

3 Likes
47

not in my experience

unless it is a super squishy like li ming or kael but they are so far back it is much harder to get a spiders on them and a wall

48
  1. Force of Will
  2. Hook
  3. Swift Strike

Medivh portal would be up there if every game was played by pro players.

49

If you needed 20 characters all you had to say is “WE ARE VENOM”

50

  1. Blink - Zeratul, Tracer, Li Ming, etc. If there’s one thing that gives a big boost to a hero’s power level, it’s mobility. Hell, bolt of the storm is a level 20 talent that is basically just blink and it’s still a huge power spike for heroes that still have access to it and it’s removal from heroes that used to have it weakened them incredibly. This one ability gives a hero survivability and huge play making potential. It’s importance can’t be understated.

  2. Swift strike - Genji. Once again mobility is such a huge power boost, especially when it also deal damage AND resets on kill. This thing got nerfed so many times and Genji defined an entire meta.

  3. Agreed with Hoku on Concussion mine for those exact same reasons. I also want to add that with his air ripper talent, Junkrat gets around more efficiently with mine than on mount. That’s just huge.

51

Does it tho? 5 toads deal 600 damage over 6 sec. It increases to 1200 damage over 6 sec with the level 7 upgrade, but you can’t hit 5 toads from max distance, unless you are fighting in a tunnel, which is an unrealistic scenario, and may happen once every 1000 games. While Spooders deal over 1100 damage, without having to rely on unrealistic odds.

52

People just love to hate the spiders :frowning:

2 Likes
53

I did tests on the dummy in practice with and without vile infection. shotgun and non shotgun. toads is more damage

54

Level 20:
Spooders w/o Vile Infection deal 2276 dmg.
Spooders with Vile Infection deal 2819 dmg.
5 Toads with Vile Infection deal 1666 dmg.
2 Toads from max range (can’t hit with more) with Vile infection deal 1405 dmg.
5 Toads w/o Vile Infection deal 1304 dmg.
2 Todas from max range w/o Vile Infection deal 1044 dmg.

I don’t know what you’ve tested, but I got totally different results.

55

you are doing your tests wrong, spiders has 1 cast where toads has 2 charges, do your tests with 2 casts, that is a big perk of toads is having 2 charges instead of spiders 1 my numbers for toads

single target with all 5 toads w/ vile infection 3091
2 toads from max range w/ vile infection 2630 (with 3 frogs left in each wave to hit more people btw for more potential damage)
now when I hit multiple dummies which you cant do with spiders my dmg with vile infection 9,258. this is not even the biggest potential damage of toads because of position of the dummies and there being only 4. so toads has much higher potential damage

know that last one where I hit multiple dummies is not a thing that will always happen but it is potential damage. and I have had lots of times where I do hit many people with frogs because it is a great zoning ability.

the only time spiders will out damage toads is against a single target with vile infection and you only got 2 max range toads to hit them, where toads will do a little less dmg to that one person but you still have the added benefit of hitting multiple people with the 6 remaining frogs in the 2 waves

56

Alarak’s telekinesis is up there. You get to escape or tell the enemy where to go with very fast startup, even through walls if you have sight.

1 Like
57

So in fact spooders are 2-ce better, but toads have 2 charges to compensate. I really doubt you can hit 5 toads 2-ce in a row on the same target in realistic circumstances, as there is a 2 sec delay between casts, and the target shouldn’t just stay idle during that time. And if they are caught in zombie wall, you can’t hit them with 5 toads (unless you are trapped with them).

2 Likes
58

it is also not ideal that a person will take full damage from spiders due to movement abilities, and not standing still if you are gonna poke holes in toads like that then at least acknowledge spiders to.

59

Yeah… Spiders hit only 17-18 times instead of 20 when a hero is moving (without any mobility abilities), so it is ~10% less damage, which is still almost 2000.

60

with frogs dmg is certain whether you move or not plus you get better wave clear, zoning, etc. toads is just overall better in nearly every way

61

Apart from it’s much easier to dodge, and it sucks against teams with lots of ranged heroes.

1 Like
62

even if it does not hit anyone it still zones them at least, and with spiders if you miss then they do absolutely nothing

63

Just as a reminder, this thread is about the most powerful basic ability.
You two are comparing frogs and spiders. Both don’t belong here.

1 Like
64

Spooders are the ability, with the highest single target damage, ofc they belong here. Not just basic ability, they deal more damage than Pyroblast too. Only Planet Cracker can out-damage them, but only if it hits the same target for at least 3 seconds.

Yeah, I know this thread has been about potential playmaking abilities, but those are conditional and require setup, while spooders just have raw power.