the problem is that Butcher mains don’t want him redesigned. They just want him over buffed so there’s no famine part, only feast.
1 Like
My solution would honestly be to give him a Li-Ming type trait where he buffs himself every time a kill happens that he participated in. Like if he gets a kill, his attack and attack speed increase for a duration
This way the feast part is more uniform while the famine feels less frustrating. It also means Butch can be tweaked to have better stats pre buff all around.
I think people just don’t get how he is played at all or how to capitalize on his strong abilities.
You have a bunch of butchers who play him double soak when he can do that with a proper 4 man rotation looking for early games which is literally what Alarak does 1 to 1, the exception is that he’s a mage.
When you play butcher, you aren’t playing around his high DPS, any auto attacker can do that really, you play around his stun, a very strong lock down stun that can be adapted in many different situations enough to isolate and kill.
5 Likes
part of the issues of playing butcher is having players that build entirely around the stun and either don’t connect one (constantly canceling) or don’t cancel it (mindlessly charging in). Instead of adapting it to a variety of scenarios, it becomes the solitary way they engage and contribute, and it tends to become an all-or-nothing play style more so than the trait quest.
Butcher charge does change substantially how you take the lane and how you consider rotations, how are you suppose to position as a whole, especially when there’s a tank in the region. He shines when he is given space (this is what Tanks specialize in), he can also single-handedly create that space himself. The issue of this boils down to the classic problem that has haunted this game since its release, people legitimately suck at working as a team or capitalizing on actions being done.
It is true that he is a feast or famine design, I completely agree with that statement mentioned, but he’s not because he couldn’t scale his trait, its because you didn’t create an early game advantage and play around his charge. When you create an early game advantage you finish your quest during that, if you don’t you will probably finish it from the enemy team throwing themselves in one fight late game which is whatever by that point you can right click the core and it dies.
Sure charge is telegraphed, loud buzzer easy to counter but this when you think about as the only thing to consider as dangerous in this situation, good Butchers stick close to a tank or around a Bruiser with a strong engage like Sonya, then Charge goes from “lol meme” to “holy crap lemme die in peace”.
3 Likes
Medhiv can no longer pickup globes while he’s flying and invulnerable.
2 Likes
Please make this so. Medivh is already lowkey broken and he could use a real nerf, but being able to fly around indefinitely and soak xp and health orbs for the team is genuine bs.
1 Like
I am surprised nobody mentioned Nova.
1 Like
while she used to see a lot of suggestions, she has distinction builds and her talent pick variety is okay across the various modes. She might not be the poster lovechild anymore, but she’s in a better state than some other heroes, and some of her issues are less a nova thing and more a power-creep elsewhere.
The Lost Vikings are another hero that could do with some changes. Just making the level 1 talents with the exception of bribe baseline would help out a good amount.
Medivh definitely deserves some adjustements.
It’s his raven form that needs changing. He can save anyone without risk because of his raven form. He can ult and steal a camp without risk because of his raven form. He can soak, regen and rotate without risk because of his raven form. When you see him, you know what he’s going to do, yet you can’t do anything about it. Maybe they could make it not immune to CC?
2 Likes
Only thing I can think of would be giving all his spells and ult a 0,5 cd when he dismount raven form. Would give people a chance to cc him
1 Like
I don’t think TLV need any help. They’re pretty powerful as is.
My problem with that is his portal’s duration. If for example I’m ETC. I wait for him to come out of his portal, stun him, wait o.5 sec, push him away, then body block, and he STILL walks away because the portal is still there.
Requiring CC from 2-3 different heroes is stupid for one character (Yes Samuro is with him in the axis of evil)
4 Likes
1 Like
hardest healer to play without enough reward.
And yes her shrike auto attack competes with being at max range for healing darts
1 Like
I think Butcher could do with a few changes. Though I’ll focus on furnace blast for this post. I do think that it needs some buffs to its capabilities so that it can reasonably compete with lamb. My suggestion would be to give it a baseline 25% slow while it’s charging and on hit the slow persists for 3 seconds then rework the fires of hell talent at 20 to the following:
if furnace blast hits 3 or more heroes automatically cast furnace blast again for free
Passive: furnace blast takes 2 seconds to explode
Meat collection could also be reworked to be less feast or famine for butcher. You could for example bake the quest reward for meat into being earned in steps like every 50 meat grants 1\4 the reward and prevents butcher from going below that threshold while still locking minions from providing meat beyond 200.
3 Likes
He doesn’t need it because I enjoy seeing enemy vegan butchers
1 Like
Spin and hop definitely need to be baseline. I’d even dare say the viking boat needs to be ‘E’. The boat is just bad, and Play Again is just so much better.
I think blast furnace lvl 10 is in fact fine like it is. I’m more concerned about his level 20 that i consider really bad at the moment.
I definitly think his level 20 deserves changes to make it usable. Currently if you really pick blast furnace, you will actually prefer the TP to have a chance to get out of the danger after an aggressive dive or even TP in with blast furnace.
Your ideas are interesting, but hitting 3 people with this is quite rare. Most of the time you will use it to burst one specific target like a squishy character and you don’t automatically have other target around you. In that way your idea might be even worse for butcher that his current design, but i might be wrong.
I think your idea of adding a slow might be really great because we could have a synergy between this and this talent lvl 4 called cheap chop, for example you could have the time to place 2 reinforced Q spell (1 at the landing of the charge, then another one during the slow applied by the charge, i mean if you time it correctly, which could be strong.
The current delay around that ult is fine and is in fact part of his gameplay, maybe the delay around the 2nd furnace blast at lvl 20 takes too much time to be honest and might also be the reason why it’s not good.
2 Likes
I wanted to point out something i just discover, on butcher and that is strange.
At the moment, Butcher can have synergy between talents that aren’t often picked like (4) Cheap chop, (13) Cleaver, (20) Nexus blade. All those talents work together, the cleave receive, the increased damage from the Nexus blade + apply a short slow than can also also affect the target cleaved and also increase the damage of Hamstring (thanks to the slow provided by Nexus blande + Cleaver). It’s particularly effective to clean minions in no time.
However right now his talent called (13) Blood Frenzy doesn’t get that synergy. Blood Frenzy is already considered as an inferior talent to his twin (13) Enraged and i think it isn’t normal that this talent doesn’t benefit of any synergy like the other. (i tried in training mode, hitting minions with ennemy hero around and it doesn’t provide the buff so i assume the cleave simply doesn’t provide the buff in any other situation).
I really think it’s a small thing but it would be really appreciable if they make (16) Blood Frenzy getting the synergy as intended and also probably slightly increase the range of (13) Cleaver, so butcher would clear wave even faster with (4) Cheap chop and would have more chance to stack Blood Frenzy or hitting multiples heroes with Cheap chop, in a team fight.
I also think Blood Frenzy should get few changes, it’s weird that the buff doesn’t last any longer, it makes it hardly usable on this form right now.
4 Likes