Uther needs a rework


#3

I think Uther’s in a pretty good spot… Except his ungodly mana costs and mostly non-existant mana sustain. He’s a really good off-tank, provides team-wide armor, good healing, decent albeit short-ranged CC, and two of the better utility ults in the game. It’s just… Jeez, his mana problem is awful.

Outside of mana(which, yes, can be fixed with buffs), what’s Uther’s problem to you two?


#4

the problem with uther is that he sucks at being main healer and main tank so either he is second healer or second tank so he needs rework i have some ideas ill write them later


#5

The biggest problem with his ability to solo-heal is that he has, last I checked, some of the worst mana issues in the game, versus other healers having a relatively fine time with that. Before we go suggesting drastic changes, let’s try and fix what we have first; See what giving him lowered mana costs(or some good mana sustain) does for him, because I’m sure it’d put him in a good spot.


#6

maybe it could work i don’t know


#7

Just one question: Which of his level 1 talents do you pick?


#8

silver touch the q one


#9

Exactly, Silver touch is by far the worst. My advice is pick Hammer of Lightbringer when you team has strong melee heroes and Wave of Light otherwise.


#10

Uther “needs” a rework insofar as he’s a painful in-between of Tank and Healer with really bad mana issues. He can be made remarkably better with a slight tightening of cooldowns and mana to smooth out his healing and improving Devotion uptime.

Generally, I’d aim for a pseudo-Multiclass, but with the only existing class being Healer due to replacing typical damage characteristics with healing, and being able to Talent into being a primary healer quite easily at the cost of CC, laning and personal survivability.

The biggest thing would probably be the Storm talents getting shifted around, because the obvious blatant dominance of a self revive, with a period of zero cost armor-granting bulk healing while entirely untouchable by anything before you’re back to normal, is… Crazy. The kind that’s really good in the blowup-dominated game that is Heroes of the Storm.

As an alternative, I’d replace the practically unusuable stacking with a passive heal aura that offers permanent armor, and the attendant Talent-based benefits, to nearby allies, in the sense of reliable melee support being mandetory to benefit from it. If you’re playing as Bruiser who’s more about healing than damage, then you’ll like the massive burst heal on death before revival we currently have, while a genuine off-tank/Muradin-style half-tank has similar desires to abruptly self-revive to a healer.


#11

wave of light is stupid its only 5 mana back i have to hit 3 heroes to get the same mana back as silver touch and hammer of lifhtbringer is again only 5 mana 8 at level 20 it sucks even when i attack without stopping i cant get more mana than i spend so yea sucks


#12

That’s not the point of these Talents. They’re to make it take longer before you run out of mana, not make it so you can keep going continuously. That’s on bruiser-style Silver Touch Holy Shock build being an engine of self-healing and poke damage that’s a colossal pain in the rear to put down.

They need to be balanced against eachother, yes. What you fail to really understand about Wave of Light is that you also reduce your cooldown, so if you can reliably hit most of your team, you get to pump out a lot of healing in a shorter amount of time alongside some damage, while Silver Touch is spot healing at long ranges.

Hammer of the Lightbringer is for a dedicated offtank playstyle, demanding you be in melee and letting you Stun enemies a lot more frequently. Importantly, it isn’t a refund, meaning you can recover mana without spending it, so you actually gain mana instead of reducing what you spend, meaning that you generally get more mana due to cooldowns being in the way of working with the other two. You can attack 12 times during one of your cooldowns, so needing 3 to match one of the other two means you trivially pull ahead. And it works on camps, minions and structures.

Wave of Light is more about zoning, with Devotion duration alongside the cooldown reduction causing burst openings to become significantly rarer across your team, and the damage isn’t exactly insignificant. Meanwhile, Silver Touch is about poking away, being sure you can get Devotion on an ally for a burst and, later on, have essentially free damage and self healing from Holy Shock.


#13

doesn’t matter he needs a rework he has the lowest healing stats in the game and also with wave of light as i said you have to hit more than 3 people to have any effect and most maps there is a lot of rotation so you’ll never be able to hit more than 3 and hammer well you have to get close and your hp isnt the bast in the world so you use your q to sustain yourself but than you waste more mana than you you would if wouldn’t attack so useless


#14

No, that’s Tassadar, Uther’s actually great on the stats, the problem is that it’s all burst. He has no real continual heal option, so the enemy just needs to mind his 12 second cooldowns and time bursts in the massive gaps. He can heal quite well, the problem is he takes a massive amount of skill to actually keep people alive with that healing because it’s so sporadic.

It has effect with literally no other Heroes hit by reducing the cost by 5 mana and the cooldown by 1 second. The value of it is largely in the latter, being a way to shrink burst windows to a degree disruptive to enemy ability to exploit and making Uther’s actual overall rate of healing improve significantly.

…Uther actually has almost exactly the same health as ETC at 1st level, and 2 more health at level 1 than the Butcher. Also like ETC, Uther has reliable armor access via his healing, meaning his effective health is often more in line with Arthas, and the fact every method of healing he has affects him means he’ll be outdoing Arthas in the self-healing without actually pumping it all into himself.

He’s remarkably durable, literally classified as part Warrior by the game (no, really, he’s the only non-Warrior with the damage taken statistic tracked as a positive). His fundamental flaw for trying to use him as a tank is the absence of an engage or escape. The one thing he can’t Talent into is the former, which is why you bring along Alarak for a pull or Jaina for slows. As for escapes? Speed self up, slow them down, and lay down a near-second-long-stun on a rather small cooldown.

Hammer of the Lightbringer is for when you have a painfully overkill frontline and want to capitalize on it. Wave of Light is for when you have Samuro, The Lost Vikings or another extra body generator around to give extra Heroes to hit, or you need grotesque burst healing. Silver Touch is at its most useful when you’re up against a lot of high-tickrate damage to get the Quest done quickly and desire reliable pokes, synergizing quite annoyingly with Holy Shock for 181 (+4% per level) damage at the cost of 5 mana, healing yourself for the same amount.

Uther’s a pain in the rear to kill when the player knows their limits and has a team able to peal for him. His biggest balance issue is that his healing offers too much armor, so giving him consistent non-burst healing is a recepie for nigh immortal frontlines that are completely inescapable. Uther’s kit synergizies wonderfully with several other healers. Him and Tassadar are nearly ideal for double support, filling in common gaps, one way or another, while having good alternate roles for when healing is being handled well.

Both of them handle burst damage wonderfully, both of them offer a hard to get rid of backup healer, both of them let the team have a low-risk diver, both of them make it a larger pain for the enemy to escape. Both of them have problems dealing with sustained damage, both of them are very timing sensitive, both of them are somewhat dependent on other teammates to handle basic tasks for them. Though vastly less so with the pro playstyle Tassadar, who’s alternate role is the healing, with his primary role being continuous double-soaking.

The problem is that, in both cases, they’re so utterly reliant on having gaps filled for them to work properly that they’re not actually working properly outside well-made team compositions. And Tassadar is utterly screwed because he’s an off-healer Specialist that most people try to play as a Healer with waveclear, while Uther’s an off-tank Healer that can at least function on his own as a healer, even if his vulnerability to enemy coordination is practically auto-lose at high enough skill levels unless the team is built to handle his flaws.


#15

first and most important tassadar is not a healer secoand what i said is still true you have to hit like 3 heroes + with wave to do anything even if it is rewarding and i never said it is not you still have to hit 3 + heroes and 3rd thing he is a bad tank i saw in hgc them playing kerrigan main tank but never uther i saw uther as second tank but never solo or main tank and both arthas and etc have more healing than uther cause their healing has a lower cooldown than uther’s also you said uther is a good second healer which is correct but second healers kinda suck cause they are mostly unneeded also you have to admit that uther right know kinda sucks and needs a rework lets say uther is usefull if you are good at him but 99% of people suck at him and it is so annoying to go into a game of ranked unranked or quickmatch and someone picks uther and he sucks at him and you team arnt getting any healing and you lose it is so annoying


#16

Uther has not zero, not one but two mana return talents which you can use at the same time.
He also provides a lot of armor and CC. He can work fine as a solo healer. He doesn’t need any kind of rework.
He’s just not the best in teams where your allies doesn’t care how much dmg they take and eat poke and fight fir eternity.


#17

Actually one of my points:

Hitting three Heroes is yourself plus two others. In a teamfight, this is trivial, because all you have to do is get Holy Radiance to get a pair in melee. During teamfights, once you’re good at positioning, you’re routinely getting four or more hits for Wave of Light during the teamfights it matters in. Though this is mutually exclusive with good Hammer of Justice use due to spacing.

He’s a bad solo tank for the same reason Kerrigan is actually a bad solo tank, and the same reason Xul is actually unworkable as a solo tank. The key here is “solo”. They miss bits of the kit needed to be a solo tank. Xul and Kerrigan work when the team is set up to give them burst management.

Meanwhile Uther needs an engage and sometimes help with pealing, but can lock down amazingly, letting you lack a conventional primary tank at all and instead split up that role throughout the team while packing double Support. Such as using Alarak for an engage and extra peal, depending on situation. Then Kerazim can be the other Support to get the burst damage for a kill. Yes, really, this is a thing that happens, the pros can and will divide the team functions however they can to make a functioning team. Gets the compositions to be really hard to ban around.

Uther is my most played healer, followed shortly after by Lucio and Brightwing due to covering the exact problems with Uther that I struggle to overcome. While I’m not a neurotically obsessive player (too much forum time for that), I am neurotically obsessive at picking apart combinations and categorization, meaning I’m pretty quick to come up with the goals, issues and solutions.

I actually routinely keep up in raw healing numbers on Uther, but the “choppyness” of the healing makes it hard for me to actually prevent deaths, especially since so much of the value is locked to timing it for when the ally is damaged and continuing to take damage so you negate 25% of the damage taken for 1.5 seconds. The mana issues make knowing when to use it even more severe. Rather high skill floor, all things considered.

Uther does not require a full rework, as his issue is the particular balancing of his kit. Smooth out his healing by a third (which is to say reduce healing and mana costs by a third, but the cooldowns by 4 seconds) and cut the armor down to 15 and he’s going to be a lot more useful because he’ll keep that lower armor up far more consistently, and he can’t be screwed over by poke nearly as hard because he wastes less mana and cooldown on dealing with small damage quantities while having more damage reduction overall.

This actually does make him have a huge flaw with dealing with an actual major competitive strategy type, fittingly named “stall” strategies, who focus entirely on poke damage and long fights that the usual blowup compositions can’t really deal with. They’re limited in the maps they work on, because they rely on poke being objective-disrupting, but are otherwise really painful to deal with because they’re rarely able to be engaged in a way that concerns them


#18

Designed weaknesses are not flaws.


#19

Uther needs some help, but not a major rework. If Blizzard could undo the numerous nerfs he received and reduce his mana costs, then he should be fine.


#20

Stall comps aren’t an intended gameplay outcome. The strategy in question is deliberately aiming to wear out the enemy team without a big flashy fight. They do not work in all-out fights due to forgoing burst damage, instead relying on just denying the enemy the ability to actually play the game as intended by constantly whittling away at them and preventing any objective from being taken.

Furthermore, designed weaknesses are flaws, by definition, merely being intentional flaws. A good character in a story is a flawed one and a well-balanced game with variety has many flawed mechanics. Skillshots are inherently flawed because they can be dodged, divorcing the results from the user’s control over the situation, thus causing them to fail through no fault of theirs, but instead for a lack of fault from their opponent.


#21

maybe he doesn’t need a rework but he definitely needs some changes also i would think a rework would be fun.


#22
  1. Add 1 or 2 circles above his health bar;
  2. To fill them he must hit an enemy;
  3. To fill in one circle you need 4 hits and only 2 if you hit an enemy with a skill (numbers may vary;
  4. Use 1 circle to use heal skill.

In other words something like “it’s totally not Auriel”