Twin blades varian needs a rework


Right now its literally balanced to be the noob version of illidan. It takes no skill at all to play seeing as you have enough chase to murder basically anyone, you 1v1 the entire roster, parry is literally a better evasion, you have self sustain, and you’re ridiculously hard to kill.

The “hard to kill” aspect is really what makes this such an infuriating build. If you dont have enough spell damage to force him to take shield wall, he’s just impossible to deal with. I remember a game it took 5 people chasing varian halfway across the map and half a dozen force walls to kill him because tb varian just NEVER DIES. Its beyond obnoxious. Another game he won a 1v3 from half health because just… nothing could kill him fast enough.

What I want to see is twin blades being reworked into more of a skill based build. I don’t know precisely how to do this, but its irritating having a totally idiot proof hero like this in the game.


“I have no suggestions, this is just a rage post”


It’s pretty much the same reason lili is op at lower ranks because lack of focus fire and teamplay, in other words lack of skill.


I don’t know why It must be reworked and HOW it must be reworked.

Ok, let’s imagine, that for some reasons (magic) dev will rework it.

How would you do that?

Rework DB. It may be really interesting.

Edit: I wanted to answer Hail, not you, MurlocAggroB.


As someone who mains Varian since his depute release.

I like his on demand versatile and that concepts always intrigued me as player.

And like always you’re completely wrong.

How have you not learned this lesson yet? This game is not about killing the enemy. It’s about destroying the core.

Since you freely admit that you only play QM. You have no right to complain when you can’t counter specific heroes. If you want a proper game. Go to unrank.

Sounds like the enemy player was dumb and not the fault of Varian. Also since you constantly tell lies and use misinformation in your posts. I would like to see the evidence.

I have never been able to 1v3 anyone with TB. But I also play against players who know what they’re doing.

But yes - actual video evidence would be nice.

Rewatch the previous video.

This game is not about killing the enemy hero. It’s about destroying the core.

Also since I know you like Valeera. Go wound poison and shut Varian down. But wound poison is useless. Right? And the energy talents at level 1 are just soooo terrible.

Why are people even doing this? What a waste of time. Also this just proves the the enemy team IS BAD and it’s not the problem with Varian.

Also I call complete and utter bullcrap on this. 5 people couldn’t kill a Varian with force wall? VARIAN DOESN’T EVEN HAVE ANY MOBILITY.

The amount of just lies with no evidence is just… gonna report for trolling/spam.

This just a flat out lie or the enemy team are 4 year olds.


Yes wound poison is terrible especially since you can pick blind at 13 and completely shut him down without sacrificing 60%+ of your damage by not picking relentless strikes.


No u.


… Varian gets twin blade at level 4 and second wind at level 7.

You seriously gonna wait all the way to level 13 to counter hero?



You know why? Cause than you’ll have a higher chance to win games that way. Varian can just back up from being blinded and wait until the status is off.

What is with the Q build? You can make up the energy cost with the first talents to offset not having relentless strikes. Also - you’re job as Valeera is to shut down the enemies first and let your team wipe the floor with them.

Outside of bursting down 40/30% life squishes.

Also. 60% of your damage.What world do you even live in dude?


Just gonna leave the last post here.

Again - the point of this game is not to kill the enemy. The point is to destroy the enemy core.

On maps like Braxxis, Dragon Shire, Warhead junction and most much where often the teams are split capturing the point.

Shutting down Twin Blade Varian the earliest you can get on these maps is the highest chances of winning.

If you don’t understand this yet. Please just know you’re just a terrible player and can’t grasp the term “tactical advantage” and that this game isn’t about “muh damage.”


Blind has 66% uptime with the level 13 talent. You almost entirely deny his impact

Regardless, you can blind him well enough that theres on point wasting a talent on wound poison.

Subtlety just sucks because it only works for the first engage of the fight, and you get 0 value for the rest of it. Vigor provides 20 bonus energy after collecting globes which isnt really something that works well with valeera’s playstyle but whatever. You get an additional 2.5 energy/second regen. that’s 12.5/s total. You lose 30 energy a second with sinister strike, so that means you lose 17.5 energy/second total with Q spam + vigor and no relentless strikes.

WITH relentless strikes, and crippling poison (which makes chaining them much easier) you lose 5 energy per second. which, correct me if i’m wrong, is a hell of a lot less than 17.5. Vigor and subtlety just don’t even come close to the level of energy efficiency Relentless Strikes provides.

He was trying to steal our shaman camp on shrines. We went after him, and he started to run away from all 5 of us. After several force walls he still managed to make it all the way through to mid without dying, only then did we finally secure the kill.


Okay. I just want to be certain that I understand this correctly.

When the enemy Varian selects this trait at level 4… You don’t select a talent to respond to it, despite the power you claim it has, until nine levels later? What’s more, you’re not picking BOTH talents that offset Varian’s advantages?

I think there’s a distinct lack of versatility in your play of Valeera that means that you’re not reading the situation and choosing talents to build on your advantages or mitigate your weaknesses. Yes, there may be talents that look like the obvious choice, but learning when those other talents have a more meaningful impact can really put a monkey wrench in uncomfortable places.


Except wound poison is a weak anti heal and valeera counters Varian with or without it, and not picking relentless strikes is always a mistake


This, this right here.

That’s the problem. Right there.


There are two halves to the equation. Stop focusing on just one side.


Any valeera player will tell you relentless strikes is a must pick. It’s not like not picking arcane intellect on jaina so you have to back more. Valeera cannot function without it.


Hi, level 14 Valeera here.
I don’t think Relentless Strikes is a must-pick.


Hi level 55 valeera here. It is


A buff u mean? I think his lvl 7 self heal should be increased to 1.25%. He’s so easy to stun/silence out or blind.


I will say this is one of HailFails posts I slightly agree with.
I did my 10 placements today and 9/10 games had a varian (he was banned the other) who basically wreaked face every time. Hes a very low skill hero and way to high reward.


Without the ability to stun/silence/blind he would be literally unstoppable…


Except you claimed that all Valeera players have it as a must pick. Not merely most, all.
It’s a popular pick, but not the only one people take.

Plus given how often you complain about easily countered issues and things solved by basic game knowledge, I am disinclined to attribute any mastery to you. Even in this thread your examples demonstrate that your team is utterly incompetent.

Example: Varian cannot outrun an entire team, alone, across the entire map. Especially with people dropping Force Walls. He has no solo mobility skills. At all. The best he has is being able to charge to an ally. The only way he could possibly preform this feat is if the chase team failed again and again and again.
Same with 3v1 tanking and winning. I’ve seen it done, I’ve done it myself. And every time it relies on both a terrible team setup for the enemy and their complete inability to realize this and insisting on head butting that wall long after it became blatantly obvious they couldn’t win. Much like people trying to slowly poke Lili to death and then coming on here to complain that she’s an invincible death machine.