The Problem Isn't Matchmaking

I’m pretty late to the party of this miasma of a thread, but what the heck, just wanted to point one thing out.

This is what I love with the “forced winrate” or other nonsensical whining, from people like OP.

I mean, if you’re in a match of 5 idiots vs 4 idiots and one good player, the team with teh good player obviously wins.

The ones that cannot climb no matter how much they play are at the rank their skill is at.
But in their denial that they aren’t actually the Master’s that their mothers has been telling them they are, they concoct all sort of excuses as to why they don’t have a visual graphic showing how Master-ly they are ingame.

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But according to you it is easy, so you should be able to play a single match and do it. Yet you don’t.

It is funny you should say that, because I died 11 times in a game that lasted almost 40 minutes. while you died 4 times in your screenshot a replay in a game that lasted 16 minutes…should we do some math here?

I honestly don’t even know what you are trying to say. What empty high stats claim? You are the one claiming my high stats are empty, not me.

Yeah, you topped heals in a game without a healer…impressive. Oh and look, you tanked the most in a game where yrel was the only tank. I guess the fact you topped overall DPS should be considered, since there were so many DPS, but that is not really comparable to a game where I outhealed an Ana and out tanked multiple tanks. Also, as mentioned, your death count per minute of gameplay is almost the same as mine, and I was on a losing team. Not really a comparable match, but hey at least you showed something.

You assume all idiots are equal. They never are. Also, because the game has such a low skill cap it makes it near impossible for a single player to carry. Lets say that one good player is playing at 90% potential efficiency…but all his teammates are all playing at sub 60%. While at the same time the other team is all around 75% efficiency. Compared to that one good player, they are hopelessly outmatched 1v1, but when its a 5v5…that one good players team will lose every time, no matter what he does. This creates a frustrating experience for that one good player as he knows he is the best player in the match, and can’t do enough to win the game. That is the issue some of us face. We get tired of being the only player in coms, after asking everyone to join in lobby every match, of making calls and getting ignored, and losing because of it, of trying to get players to just soak lanes every match. We know we can play insanely good games, like a time I played a near perfect naz game with no deaths and 100% kill participation, and still lost because my team literally did not know how to do anything but yolo dive, and yet, it does not matter. I usually know within 3 minutes of match start how good my teammates are, and what kind of match to expect. Maybe 1 out of 10 matches I expected a good match, most of the time I expected it to be a complete mess and whether I won or lost would be determined by who was worse, my teammates, or the opposing team.

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Utterly and pure nonsense.

YOU have no skill to carry. Which is why you can’t climb at all.

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It’d be easy if my teammates would be bad and I would troll the game (I should be trolling to recreate your bad plays).

By empty claim I meant, that you just came here, said that you did xy and called it a day without any actual proof.
And despite your claims having nothing to back them up, I beleived, because I know it’s possible and I even guessed correctly your Bruiser in question before you saying it was Leoric.
Why? Because I know the Heroes.

The match lasting for 40 minutes is also an empty claim (has no prrof), so why believe you?

You also ignored that I went for utility and not dmg+heals as Leo with my build unlike you and I still topped everything with ease.

Some of my high stats are invalid in your eyes because I healed the most with no Healers in the game? Well that’s why I said this:

Because I knew you will nitpick into everything you just can…

Yea, I did, unlike others. Because I’m not just empty words like you.

lol, carry a lot of games do you? just run in 1v5 and clean up the entire opposing team do you? You don’t, because you can’t. Your xp is locked to what your team provides, you can’t buy items to counter heroes/abilities/play styles, you are stuck with cd’s that for the most part are set. There is a maximum amount of damage you can do with each character, and it is not hard to achieve it in team fights, after that it is just positioning and picking the right targets.

This moba requires a laughable amount of skill when compared to Dota, where I can carry.

No items, no last hitting minions to maximize gpm, limited camps, small maps, clear objectives. So few variables to account for…

See, there we are, you acknowledge that in order for me to dominate like i did, my teammates had to be bad. Which was my initial claim.

I wasn’t here to prove my gameplay, I was using my stats to illustrate how bad matches are now.

Well, you don’t have to. I don’t really care if you do or not. If you don’t believe me than you shouldn’t be arguing about my stats, since as far as you are concerned I made them up.

The point isn’t just that you didn’t have a healer, the point is there was no healer in game period, so there is no baseline established. For that matter, you were the only person ever healing yourself so potentially you could heal 100% of your own damage. With a healer you would have a lower potential threshold. I honestly don’t care what brusier you use, or what ult you take. The point was to see if you could get similar stats anyway you could with similar (standard) comps. Although it would be nice to see stats from a losing game as well, since mine was, and generally it is harder to get high stats when you are losing.

You choose to argue against me based on the initial information I presented. You already assumed at that point that the information I had given was correct, because you formed your arguments based on that information. The only interest I have in this game at this point is following up on forum posts. I don’t even have the launcher installed right now. I am not going to reinstall the game to find a replay so you can assumptively analyze it. Which I know is what you would do. I can tell, because it is what you did when with the stats I posted. You didn’t ask how long the game I was in was, or what the other picks were, or what map it was, you just immediately assumed I was a feeding statpadder and a bad player. I am not going to go through a bunch of work to provide a replay so someone with your preconceptions and attitude can look at it and say inane things like “you died because you were out of position” when really I died because I had chosen to try to drain before marching, and got stunned before march cast, while I had wraithwalk up and had I been slightly faster on my rotation I would have been immune for the stun ulted through the person stunning me, and then wraithwalked out of danger because the stun would have hit me while I was unstoppable.

If I really thought you would analyze a replay fairly and ask questions, I might have been willing to go through the work to upload one, but you have been clearly biased against me from your first post, and I have no interest in your opinion of my play because in all likelihood it would be worthless.

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Yep.

I’m not going to respond to the rest of your nonsensical whining. Enjoy being a loser!

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I never denied your teammates being bad, my claim is, that you are just as bad as them.

What stats? I don’t see stats. I don’t see anything from you. So you failed at your attempt.

If I have a Healer, the enemy has a Healer. If the enemy has a Healer, I have a Healer. You nitpicking into even this just shows how little you know…

What stats?!

My arguments often “accept” certain informations as “the truth” even if I don’t believe them, because I often fight the flawed logics and arguments and not questioning everything makes that easier.

  1. These informations should be represented in your original post tbh…
  2. Since your post was an arrogant “i’m better than everyone because i had high stats with 11 death” bragging, first, I wanted to point out that you are not as good as you think you are.
  3. You said pretty early that you deleted the game and you won’t search for the replay. Why should’ve I asked for more details? Pretty high chance that you can’t recall it well from your head anyway…

I don’t buying this…
And I know you won’t believe me, but I analyse games without bias. If you are truly good, I would say that after watching the replay. But since the topic is about you, I would point out all of your mistakes. Because your point is, that you are better than your allies, but if that’s true, you probably do mistakes rarely, and not from the severe ones.


Watch this and learn.

you seem very attached to the idea that carrying = running in 1v5 and somehow cleaning up the place. i can see why you’re having trouble with dying alone, heh

carrying just means that you’re pulling a disproportionate amount of weight in order to achieve victory. it can easily look like, say, a zagara dominating the map while enemies try and fail to chase after her. it can look like a tracer or genji who knows when they can dive and who they can pick on. it can look like a kel’thuzad who never misses. etc etc

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Lol, which you based on my death count and absolutely no other evidence.

I gave comparative stat information, because flat numbers would be pointless without context.

And that has what impact on what I said?

Like I said, if you don’t believe it I don’t care. Stop wasting my time with arguments based on what I said then.

No, because, that wasn’t the point of my post. You keep trying to make it the point, but I was just giving a brief outline to illustrate a point.

No, that is how you took my post. I used that information to support my statement, but there is a lot more that goes into me being better than the people I was being matched with. But I can quote stats in a single paragraph, explaining comparative map awareness for an entire match is a lot more vague unless I want to write entire paragraphs on it.

Probably not, but I can give ballpark numbers for just about everything.

BS, you started out with a assumptive statement about my skill.

I watched it…I learned how fast sonya can clear certain camps at certain levels. Considering I played sonya maybe 5 times in the past two years, and never on a map with turrets, I guess that would have been helpful if I was still playing. As to all the maximize impact stuff…why do you think I quit playing? I can’t soak 3 lanes at once, and I can’t get a camp early without someone rotating to cover the lane, unless I push it out, and I can’t rotate to help a teamfight if my team just backs out of every fight. I got tired of having to cover for my team because I was the only one that knew what needed to be done so I did it. Like clearing a lane that is pushing a fort, while my team 4 mans a camp…I got tired of my teammates being so bad I was forced to soak as a healer, because my team wasn’t soaking and I would have more “impact” by soaking xp than healing, even though my lane clear was garbage.

I just got tired of it every, single, game.

You want to make the argument that I was as bad as the people I was playing with solely based on me dying 11 times in a single match, while dismissing the fact that I outtanked the tanks and outhealed a main healer while also topping dps as leo in a losing match. You apparently assume I didn’t know how to play because you linked some basic crap like the above video that talks about “impact” which should just be in everyone’s head all the time. Every second of every game should be “what can I do that has the most impact?”. That is basic moba stuff, and in other mobas that can make a real big difference regardless of how garbage your team is. I notice in the video his team was doing stupid stuff like abandoning soak to 4 man a camp at level 5, which happened a lot in my matches.

Quite frankly I have come to the conclusion it is useless to talk to you. All you want to do is say how bad I am, without any supporting evidence, regardless of what I say. You link me basic moba crap, assuming I don’t know it. I really don’t know what is higher your ignorance or arrogance.

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My sentinents towards you, really.

Why not just provide the counter-proof? Show us the replay of this game and show us how great you were and all the great plays you made that your team were too dumb to follow up on.

The problem here is 100% you. You insist that you are cursed; that everyone you play with and against is a moronic failure, but you always get the worst of the worst on your team.

I know one thing about you from assumptions based on this thread:
Never ever in your games do you retroactives think about what you did wrong or what you could do better. Because you always, 100% always, think the loss is based on your team, and that how good you are is irrelevant to change that.

Therefore you don’t improve. Therefore you can’t climb. Therefore your skills don’t rise.

It’s not the matchmaking, it’s the random types of people you may get into your team. MM can’t control if you get players with horrible game sense.

On that note, when you press “Ready” it’s mostly up to chance and not skill.

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Carrying in hots functions differently then in lol or dota.

So easy a GM can do it.

Because having GMs in Bronze and Silver doesn’t cause its own issues.

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Oh, it definitely ruins games down there. It is an issue. However those challenges could be necessary for the community as a whole to disprove myths like “forced 50% win ratio” or “elo hell”.

To carry at a high win rate like those streamers (95-100%) you need to be 3-4 leagues above the enemy in skill. It is very, very hard for a gold-skill player to climb out of silver (if they manage at all).

You need to get significantly better than the average enemy in your MMR just to rise up one single league (to get out of silver in any reasonable amount of time, the player needs a skill level of at least low-mid platinum)

Note how even GM streamers drop down to 50-60% win ratio when the challenge gets to Diamond.
The skill disparity between GM’s and diamonds is there (and quite significant), but it’s not large enough in favor of the GM to keep solo carrying games all the time.

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Wise wordds here. Carrying is tough, and often others will yell at you constantly in QM or low ranks. For example, I find it pretty easy to carry as Dehaka. The character has amazing wave clear, a global, and can’t die if you know what you are doing. I can easily escape 1 v 3, 4, 5, plus I can change the tide of fights in ways others don’t understand - like getting a surprise kill right before the obj with my global.

At the end of the game, I tend to dominate xp, but be pretty close in other numbers. It’s what is behind those numbers . . . amazing effciency . . . that is why your able to carry on Dehaka.

2 games this evening in Unranked : against 5 healers and then against 5 spec (not named spec anymore)… So much fun. 0 MM.

Somewhere, anywhere, the problem is MM. And balancing.

And from the perspective of someone with severe attention issues, my opinion on that is that it turns the game into route spreadsheets of following through on pre-planned gameplay rather than actual execution skill, because the obscenely vast majority of the possibility space is traps, irrelevant, situational beyond reason, or otherwise narrowed down to a pre-game decision process in near totality.

And the summary of that is that the game very quickly contorts around two players, with the rest of the players in the match turning into a side note compared to the carries, who can each easily destroy the other four players in the match, sometimes at the same time.

The genre is inherently a team game, but HotS is the only major one that’s actually designed as such, and has the fastest starting pace by a massive margin. HotS strips out the busywork mechanics, instead making it a game of direct skill application, from start to finish.

The mechanics you mention? They’re “knowing” skill, not “doing” skill. They’re skill-floor mechanics for basic competence and minutia to dredge the slightest number out of, they’re not adding to the ceiling of execution of the player being good at playing the game.

UD is draft based with a less serious approach than real ranked [SL]. How is it the MM’s fault that you ended up against 5 Healers and ex-Specialists? :thinking:

Team against solo feeders. That’s the point. Cannot counter those without voicechat.

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The problem is indeed matchmaking. While it is true that most players left for Dota or LOL or whatever game out there that is not the true issue. The matchmaking program dosen’t know what the difference is between a melee dps and a brawler and dosen’t distinguish player levels it just takes 5 people looks at the roles from the moon and tosses them in a fight.
For example Alarak and Ilidan are both melee dps so it dosent matter that alarak needs to be at least above average level and ideally have a team member close to be able to stand a chance against a rightclick and win AA.
You died 11 times in a game, now put your self in my shoes when after a day’s work you want to relax with 2-3 games and have 11 crushing defeats or more … in a row one day after another.
From my point of view aside from the braindead AA heroes (varian, butcher, rainor…) and the one button nukes (kaeltha’s) most of the heroes are very well made . Most have skill shots and interesting mechanics that you don’t find in DOTA \ LOL (abathur is a very good example)
Matchmaking sees all heroes like equal, players of 500+ are put in the same teams or against new players and tosses them togheter, this resulting in a team made of murky, nova, abathur, artanis and vikings while the other has varian, butcher, kaelthas, zaria and a tassadar for good measure… gl with that -_-
It’s a shame that this game was pushed to the side, with some more work put into it, it wouldef reached Dota and Lol’s level and even surpass them in some regards.

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