His like Kerrigan in a way, if he misses Q (kerrigan her W) they are screwed.
If Imp lands a Q, he is self rooted. That’s whe you CC him and punish him
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This is why I think all the nerf talk is silly. He has counter play. Sure, he’s a lane bully early but late game you can punish him for going it. Missing is obviously rough for him but you can counter focus him after he engages. It’s not like he’s going to stun everyone that has CC at the same time consistently. He’s also pretty weak to ranged stuff.
As for the win rate stuff in diamond+? Of course high upside heroes that can dominate with skill will have higher win rates in those ranks. The way you counter that stuff is with strong drafts and teamwork. I think Imperius is unique in that he’s a bruiser with strong CC that only tanks have while also bringing high damage potential. Dealing with him and a coordinated team can be tough.
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His popularity is a concern, but honestly a small change can fix that.
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Well because people watched a few pros play him and call him op.
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I checked your thread about Imperius and this your reasoning? It’s rather weak for a “master player”. It’s more a rant, which belongs to the salt mines, but not a thread for a serious discussion.
And this statement let me stop to take you serious. Laughs in Yrel.
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I have ignored all comments just to say…
Please make him as miserable as he was before… I always end up wrecked by one in my matches… 
And that thought came to my mind…
Of course this comments comes from a player, who call himself “MisMagius” with a Ming avatar. 
I would perfectly fine with a small change.
I don’t get why people don’t acknowledge that top tier players and pros have biases just like everyone else. HotS is a game that there has to be some hero that everyone attacks for being too strong. It never stops. The sad part is some times the character isn’t actually OP but very good when played well. People need a scapegoat.
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Very high mana cost balance him. Wave clear is not problem - full W build fix it.
Full W build isn’t super good for wave or camp clear. Holy fervor used to be the option for wave clear but it was changed during his mini rework and it’s usage dropped off significantly.
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I didn’t say anything about the mercenary camps. This is another question. Or thou mean when mercenery already push a line? Then full W build is not worse than other heroes with weave clear exept assasins of course. For bruisers and tanks it’s ok.
As much as you want to say this quote in the next few dozens of threads, I will keep it short.
They still do, even after the Axe axed the competitive scene 2 years ago.
Because that’s how game design works when a game has a competitive scene or any sort of competitiveness, you balance around the best tier because the best tier pushes any hero the Maximus, not the other way around.
It is the same I keep have to experience when people give me complete “what” moment from low elo implying why I pick this talent which is considered very optimal choice.
A lot of things QM/low ranked don’t understand that sometimes they get confused over why even this specific talent was nerfed or picked in the first place.
Like Ana said, you look at stats but you don’t nor experience them in high elo, not like I care about you being QM player or anything but this is plain dumb game design that would causes risk in the process.
You the one claimed Malthael being weak then a master elo player debunk how you put it as Malthael has no usefulness.
Like was said, just because you don’t experience it doesn’t mean it is weak nor it is fine.
A lot of people problems in this community is that they have no idea how to play this or do that or what to do next.
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I just hate that the forums is lately “Check out this winrate, if this is in masters it must be true” comming from gold players and people who never touched ranked instead of actually listening to the masters. If those people ran the economy we would be a in a global debt
AJ Jackson once said “if you knew the winrate of Probius he should get a hard nerf” but instead he got buffed.
Edit : masters arent 100% right but they have a good insite on how things are
2 Likes
Well at what winrate Probius sits overall?
You think I care? I look for in game stats where the player is good at and what the hero actually does
I suck at Gazlowe but if the site says Gazlowe is the most OP hero atm I say OK, good for him. But I know he is not a ban or a instalock by a teammate
We can use win rate as a metric of balance, but the problem here is everyone here puts it out of context.
Win rate not put into context is meaningless garbage which is exactly what is happening.
Untouchable had a staggering win rate post rework, out of context, Untouchable should be nerfed, in context pro players are abusing a bugged talent and exploiting for their own gain thus inflating win rate. Notice how the win rate now makes more sense now?
Tracer was still nerfed but the talent that everyone pointed fingers at wasn’t because it was instead “readjusted” to do something similar as a way of bug fixing it, like this talent Heavy Handed was also bugged a permanent 15% damage increase because it applied armor first then the melee damage.
So to put it in context as the example I am using for Tracer: It was a complete bugfest of a rework (and still is) which inflated her win rate in the process.
Like I said, they still balance around the highest, ignoring this is plain denial, the tank meta being bland was posted by a master player on a reddit confessing the fact that ETC and Jojo are plain overdominant while the other tanks are simply weak in comparison, and what a surprise the these two tanks nerfed while the others buffed in the process.
This video is great, talks about game balance in general and how you should possibly never balance around the average and below but the highest because highest are just plain exploiters ready to break your game.
The average joe =/= understand everything or have full analysis or theory crafting.
BTW maximus I am still waiting on your proof of Imperius Q not hitting its targets and having jank hitbox, because so far, I’ve seen none, gimme replay bro.
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Just make design philosophy like other mobas. If you’re a good duelist, you should be bad in a true 5 v 5 teamfight. Which means qhira and most bruisers would get nerfed for teamfights, but better at waveclearing
Umm, I’m sorry but what is wrong with my username? Didn’t catch the reference…
Do you mean they only balance around Masters or Pros?
No they do not. In fact, they often end up balancing a lot around lower-level players, like the kind who couldn’t spot stealth, or who didn’t understand the importance of soaking exp, or who didn’t understand the importance of proper positioning against KT, Diablo, and Genji, or who didn’t understand that you don’t just try to outrun Tracer.
Hopefully they won’t do the same balancing around low-skill players who don’t understand the importance of “dodge the Q” with Imperius.
They have to juggle all levels of play when making balance changes. As much as some people may want to ignore statistics that (consistently) disagree with them, this game is not balanced around themselves or their own personal experiences, nor is it balanced around the experience of particular streamers or their opinions, nor around just a single rank. You don’t get to ignore everyone but yourself when trying to balance a game no matter what rank you are.
Since apparently it still hasn’t gotta through to so many people on the forums, I’ll say it yet again.
YOUR PERSONAL ANECDOTE DOES NOT OVERRULE STATISTICAL EVIDENCE.
Why is it that whenever we end up arguing over whether or not statistical evidence is more important than personal anecdote you guys always have to resort to strawman arguments?
I have never claimed Malthael is weak. I have explicitly stated that he is balanced overall multiple times, yet you and the others arguing his talents are fine keep inventing this narrative that I think Malthael is weak overall.
Do not assume I base my analysis of balance on personal anecdote and my own singular experience, as Harbinger, AnaBanana, and often Karabars do.
I’ve experience things you haven’t, and you’ve experienced things I haven’t. The difference between us is that I do not make wild generalizations based on those isolated occurrences like you all are so quick to.
Even when I think something “feels” too weak or too strong, I don’t automatically assume that I’m right, which far too many people in our society do. It might be that I’m not using it properly if it feels weak or that I’m just playing against worse players than myself if it feels to strong (either because those players are bad or because I’m better than average).
Yes, like many of the people clamoring for Imperius nerfs, just like they clamored for KT, Genji, Diablo, and Tracer nerfs, even when those heroes were balanced or even underperforming.
THIS IS WHY WE NEED STATISTICS.
Christopher Hitchens stated what has come to be known as Hitchen’s Razor: “That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.”
A more relevant version of this would be to say, “That which is asserted with only anecdotal evidence can be dismissed with only anecdotal evidence.”
Anyone of us on here can say, “I experienced X,” but someone else can come up and say “I did not experience X,” or “I experienced Y.”
For example:
“Pyroblast is too OP, it needs nerfs!”
“Pyroblast is not OP, and does not need nerfs.”
Just looking at those claims and considering nothing else, who do you believe?
Hopefully, you don’t blindly jump to one side or another, you check Pyroblast’s statistics, specifically its winrate. Then you come back and see which claim most closely reflects reality. In this case, the second claim, that Pyroblast is not OP, is the one that most closely reflects reality.
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This is exactly the kind of mindset so many people have when it comes to balance, they just don’t want to admit it because they know no one would take them seriously if they did.
“I actively want this hero I struggle against to be garbage tier so I no longer have to struggle against them. I want you balance the game around my personal enjoyment!”
Who would really want to admit to agreeing with a position like that?
This is what happened with Hanzo, Genji, Diablo, Garrosh, Cho’Gall (twice now), Tracer (also twice now), etc.
Exactly.
“I’m not bad, that hero is just OP!”
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