PBMM: How much do we have to pay to get it implemented?


#21

I think you mistake me for someone else?! … Or at leats I can’t remeber complaining about maps or unlocking heroes. Unlocking heroes was never a problem to me … I just buy the ones I want … and even though I don’t like all maps, I don’t have hard counting complaints about any at the moment. :slight_smile:


#22

i apologize then if thats the case. :slight_smile:

still though maybe its worth taking some time off to play other games.

PBMM didnt work properly to begin with and was heavily abused. the problem with it is that the game cant track the necessary actions to provide meaningful performance based ranking adjustments. for instance you could hit your stun 100% of the time… but was it meaningful? if it didnt lead to follow kills, your team securing objectives, structures being destroyed and so on… then no it wasnt really meaningful. you were just spamming a stun.

unfortunately this is exactly what happened with PBMM. the game cannot track these kind of metrics. it is actually not possible to make that kind of determination reliably because its not a mater of numbers. its some vague circumstance that could happen at any point.

for example look at the follow up kill situation. how do you quantify that? a kill within 3 seconds? … what if the kill happened 4 seconds after? it still led to a kill but the system doesnt realize you did a good job. this is in contrast to solid numbers it can verify like you cast a skillshot and it hits a hero.


#23

How do you know it? PBM hasn’t get a chance to show it’s power. It was disabled almost instantly. And devs said, that PBM was disabled not because it was working wrong. They rolled back MM system, cause of some problems, not related to PBM.
You can’t abuse this system, if you get your numbers high and lose, you still lose points.

You think, that PBM is bad, because it is not perfect. But what is really bad is the current MM. And PBM is more than good enough in its current state. It would be a great MM improvement if they implemented it.


#24

PBMM was substantially removed from Overwatch because of the problems it caused. If you understand the mathematics of ELO/Trueskill systems you will understand how difficult they are to apply to team games and how susceptible they are to being skewed by additional layers of mathematics over the base win/loss calculations.

You THINK you want PBMM because it speaks to you on an emotional level based on your perceptions and frustrations and SEEMS logical but it’s not. You’ll be back here in a year demanding they remove PBMM.


#25

Well that is just illogical and backwards thinking


#26

I KNOW I want PBM because it speaks to me on a common sense level based on logic.

" The Elo system was originally invented as an improved [chess] rating system…"
It is ok for solo games. SC, WC, Q3 duels etc.
It must be tuned to use in team games. And there are ways.
Player’s personal performance must be considered. Otherwise it will be a mess. And it is now.

Let’s try. Gimme a chance to be wrong.


#27

I doubt if they will use it properly. If they really want to educate bad players they should tell them things they literally ban you for.
“Good job, you dealt 12k hero damage as Butcher, more than your average 10k, however your tank and support tripled this damage and 5 other assassins in the same game dealt 70k. You should work on dealing more hero damage!”
It’s 100% ban-worthy when a player says this.

The Blizzard which bans players who tells stop feeding, removes unpleasant comments from the forum and Youtube, even removes 110k dislikes would stop praising misplaced silvers from platinum to master? Impossible!


#28

PBMM i think they gave up on because they announced “Using PBMM to educate players”, so basically “Gratz you died one time less than your usual 10 times” messages

I just hope they show negative feedback aswell not just positive, like "You died 3 times more than similar players, you got rekt son. "


#29

People complain about allies they see as less than them.

They say they should be put with higher skilled opponents and allies, but if that were to happen. More often than not. They would then become the same thing they once complained happened to them. A burden to the higher players.

Tis a viscous cycle.


#30

I give Acti’Blizz credit for not bowing to pressure to reintroduce something that doesn’t work. Previous posters have covered the pertinent reasons why it didn’t work and probably never would. I liked the idea, but I’d probably be calling for it to be scrapped if it was like broken PBMM system we had last year.


Matchmaking, the only biggest problem in this game
#31

PBMM wasnt really broken, at least until Diamond it would work fine. But somehow it messed up with the placements and I bet they never figured out what caused it, so theyre unable to implement it.

It should be very easy to at least affect your mmr gains by Dmg/Heal divided by Death. Sure every other game you have to sacrifice yourself to win a teamfight, but 90% of the games its a very good metric.


#32

It’s actually incredibly difficult to judge skill in game, because their is no real way to compare the move that was made to see if it was the best possible move that could have been made or not. Their are many ways you could try, but they all have their flaws.

Comparing hero damage to deaths could be problematic. A Li-ming that have 100k damage with 3 kills is not actually playing well. A Li-ming with 60k hero damage and 15 kills played better. Even if they both died the same amount.

And healing per death is worse. Because you can only really heal damage taken. If your team takes obscene amounts of damage. you can heal more. If they play smart. You get lower total numbers, and by extension look worse.


#33

So they should let us try it … and I’m still convinced it would bring an improvement for the lower leagues.

No, because you can learn from your superiors, but not from your inferiors … and a teacher having other students every class can achive less, but a pupil having diverrent teachers every class can achive something.

And that’s why the PBMM woudn’t have only loocked at two stats for each role. If you can’t heal much as a healer, because your teammates don’t take damage, then you can deal more damage instead … you get your stats elsewhere … or you are just standing around uselessly and don’t deserve a better ranking. Same goes for other examples.


#34

i agree 100% i have also stayed with the game only because of this promise to finally improve the ranking system


Impossible to climb ladder anymore
#36

Ookk…what about such increased Rank system points? :slight_smile:

What happened to that "skill based" mmr?
(find and read my reply! )

This mine 1st versione is good.
Second versione would be more increased points and is much improved or better!

Table:

1st :From Bronze max for MVP would be 300 start be lower "-1 " per every from these 20 achievements. I would I rank in importance:
1st :MVP achievement: max 300 ranked points
2 .Main healer 299 R.P.
Soak :298 R.P
3.Hight assists numbers: 297 R.P.
4.Hight streack kills: 296 R.P.
5.This achievement wich heal to survive any heroe( i dont know what is axact name):295 R.P.
6.Hight XP : 294 R.P.
7.Escape artist : 293 R.P.
8.Hight numbers get objectives: 292 R.P.

all rest 12 achievements i dont know what are!
To 6 achievement are much more important than all rest.

After that with thise cheme table points would be decreased per “-10” points Silver,Gold,Diamond,Platium,Master, Grand Master.

Whole idea to be increased points to offset 1 lose game. Or that mean :slight_smile:

In Bronze league players.must offset 1 lose games with 2 won games and so …on so…on
Silver 3 win games agains 1 lose game
4 win vs 1 lose game - Silver
5 win games vs 1.lose game - Gold
6 win games vs 1 lose game in Diamond
7 wins games vs 1 lose game in Platuim
8 wins games vs 1 lose game in Master
9 wins games vs 1 lose game in Grand Master

  • 200 pints for 1 lose game
    Every devisione are with 1000 ranked points

Only with this way we can offest loses game and terrible players,luck situacions, this closest 50 % win rate

And i want tell you 1 mine idea wich is clue with this increased Ranked points:

https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/heroes/topic/17617065129?page=1.
( old mine topic,read 4 th idea!)

Blizzrad team cant undestand what huge mistake in this MMR system.
With this 4 th idea wich is based of KDA calculated % ratio.
With this way we can correct for 7 days this KDA % ratio NOT LIKE THIS CURRENT MMR SYSTEM WICH TRACK YOU EVERY GAME WHAT ACHIEVEMENTS WE DO… THIS IS HUGE MISTAKE BECAUSE THIS SYSTEM NOT ALLOW AT US TO CORRECT OUR ACTIONES SLOW. THIS RUSH/ FASTY MMR SYSTEM. IF BE SLOWLY THEN WE CAN PLAY WITH CLOSEST SIMILAR CAREFUL PLAY PLAYERS WITH LESS DEATHS!!! THAT IS BIG DIFFERENCE FROM THIS CURRENT MMR SYSTEM AND WITH THIS MINE CALCULATED PER EVERY 7 DAYS. BECAUSE OUR HUMAN QUALITYES AND FEELS, EMOTES ,REAL LIFE THINGS.ARE DIFFERENT AND CONSTANT CHANGE. THIS IS HUGE FACTORS HOW WE ACTIONE IN GAME.
Of course game xp and skill are also clue , and have a lot matter for our humans actuons into the game. That Blizzard cant inderstand. And they maybe not read all mine topics,replys. But im sure this 2019 year these ideas ,mechanics would be to finaly add or complete it or come this patch with these mine ideas.
Guys im OVER 20 YEARS GAMER XP-ED AND I PLAYED SO MANY GAMES. I HAVE INSANE GAMER XP! :slight_smile:
I hope so they read this mine reply.! :slight_smile:

Wait me in game EU server. And watch out how many times you will die. Just watch out ! :slight_smile:


#37

Silver and gold leagues badly need it. Maybe plat and diamond.

The biggest problem i see in gold/silver is Random Gold 2 Player 1 and Random Gold 1 Player 3 can be exactly the same in skill, or several leagues apart. ZERO consistency in play. I had a team full of silvers in last nights yolo queues (10 min +) that played well, didnt split off or duel it up, didnt feed, and kept it tight. Today, i get 4 matches in a row of golds who are nowhere near each other in skill: 1st pick vallas that die 8 times; KT that does less damage than tank with 9 deaths, and just last game a zj player who locks on braxis with no wave clear, does about 17k hero damage, dying to Anub 6 times in a 11 min match.

Why are these people on my team? This isn’t gold league. And if it is, i don’t belong there anymore, and havent in well over 2 years.


#38

The reason is that silver and gold leagues are much more crowded. I think it’s something like 35 and 35% of the population in each, I don’t remember the exact numbers. And definition of skill is such a vague thing that yeah, you will experience things all over the board. Additionally, as someone who was in gold at some point, I think there are too many people in silver/gold who play “everything” i.e. they don’t really have mains and they spread pretty evenly across the board in terms of hero selection and don’t analyze what they are good/bad at. So depending on a hero selection you can have the same person perform really well or really badly.


#39

hm…i read so carefuly your suggestions…look so is huge better this current versione…you man ginius! I either play from beta versione…hehe :smiley: you are smart than Blizzard team! Yould be alot better with this versione MMR,ranked points.
“you chear up me man”!
I hope so Blizzard read your reply and start work on it!


#40

The sad thing is - you are usally forced to play “everything” since there is no such thing as queuing for special roles like in WoW. Yeah I know, this is a MOBA and the other a RPG, but for “Dungeons”/Matches it’s more or less the same system here and there; roles according to the holy trinity. The latest try to improve QM mm and the general experience show that at least 3 of the 5 players in a Team in HotS are also choosen according to the holy trinity with an additional two flex roles that can be Assassin/Support or Warrior.

And - to come back to the topic; the introduction of role-queuing could also help with the ranking system. Yes, depending on the role a person plays, skill can be different than with an other role. Instead of having different MMRs for each game-mode (QM, unranked, both ranked) there could be an MMR depending on the prepicked role, helping the system with ajusting its rating of the players performance.


#41

Yes…thats right man…for an axample if team draft 2 tanks(bruser),1 support,1 specialist, 1 range assasin…is rewarded "+1 ranked points + this.mine increased new versione system for won game…but if team draft 1 melee assasin,2 ranged assasin,0 support, 1 tank… and player wich dint pick support (system woyld detect that)for lose game get “-600 “ranked points in Ranked for won game will get”-400”…this cheme table can easly be make it by importance. Hey man thank you i didnt think about such points befor.