Dunno why you people talk about Ragnaros as “he is bruiser because he got A, B, C, D”.
Is Tyrael a tank? Meh…
Is he Muradin/Diablo kind of tank? Hell no. I wish you good luck tho, if you end up with Sonya as closest thing to “tank” against Tyrael with Genji/Illidan/Tracer.
Who will he play against is what matters.
Honestly Tyrael should probably be listed as Support, I mean, if Zarya is, why couldn’t Tyrael be so ?
Because he is a tank 
Good point !
Also, the thing with him i find its that its easy to mess up and get killed . i see many rag that will slightly extend for one more poke and get caught , they might not die by the damage they took they then need to B and heal up and come back , by that time if they were laning vs someone else , what ever XP advantage they provided has likely been nullified.
One thing people forget is that rag isnt actually that hard on mana unlike certain bruisers where they chug mana and deplete it every fight.
Killing Ragnaros doesn’t take much time…
His base health is exactly 2080 hp, and he heals for 79 hp per Sulfuras activation. He doesn’t get armor or shields.
He is the only “Bruiser” that has his sustain tied to an AA ability. If you blind him, he gets nothing. If there’s no enemy in melee range, he gets nothing. And when he’s in the front lines, he dies.
I think the only people who think Rag has good survivability are people who don’t play him.
I mean, Raganaros built as a bruiser turns into a bad illidan.
Raganros’ sutain will not make him survive hits from Lunara during a fight, even if he has a target to constantly hit. You can’t out-sustain KT, or Gul Dan either.
In my point of view tbh Zarya (and even Rexxar) are more tanks than Tyrael is lol, heck, I’d even play with a Xul to protect team rather than rely on Tyrael, and here’s mainly why tbh
Tank’s job is to ENGAGE and PEEL (i.e. save allies from dive or setup a situation for an easier kill), support’s job is to save allies from death, but it’s tank’s job to save allies from divers (when opponent’s illidan or muradin or whoever dives on your Tyrande, Malf, Ana, Lili, whoever the support you have) THAT is what the tank’s job is = to “separate the fight” like a boxing arbiter between the two (relatively unmatched ?) fithers
NOW => how exactly can/does Tyrael do that ?, exactly, not at all, heck, even Artanis might be more of a tank than Tyrael is…
Not saying the hero doesn’t work or isn’t good (on the contrary, probably one of the best duelists in game, think of something like Sonya meets Zeratul, that seems [to me at least] to be his main playstyle), but he’s definitely not a tank (at least not in my book)
But then again = he’s an ENABLER similar to Kharazim = his strength is empowering allies to be stronger during skirmishes (faster, more durable, even invulnerable during a teamfight with the ult)
If anything, AGAIN, would (should) list him as a support, his main job (to me) seems like he’s a damage prevention and ally-enabler type of hero, NOT a dive-separation/peel (nor even setting up kills much for that matter)
Looks like people need to learn how to play Tyrael, then they will see how good of a tank he is.
No one plays him good apparently rofl. All they do is just spam qwer for themselves only and just dies instantly. I think he’s a good tank especially with Butcher.
Tyrael peels with E and W. And can engage with Q.
Zarya has much less survivablity. If she gets focused, Her shield pops and she dies. She can’t speed up or teleport.
And here we see someone who has either never played the character, or has never bothered to do an ounce of research to see how to play them well, or figure out their strengths.
Rag is undeniably a solo lane character, has consistently been picked as one, and has always fit the bruiser role provided you don’t go Meteor build. His other two viable builds? Bruiser all the way.
I wasn’t expecting Ragnaros to be a bruiser either. The way he is now, he feels really squishy to even be a brusier. Then again, could the Dev team be looking at him in a different direction for what he already is?
Does feel a little odd for Rag to be labeled a bruiser, and he isn’t a great melee assassin either- so there is that.
And here we see someone who hasn’t read the replies. How much have you played Rag?
Consistently picked by whom? In what context?
When you say “His other two viable builds” Which builds are you talking about?
Why does how much I’ve played him matter? I don’t play Chromie at all, and yet I still know how she functions as a sheer matter of counter play. And I do play Rag, just for the record, I’m only pointing out the flaw in the argument you’re trying to setup.
Coolbeans that you’re level 51 with him. That doesn’t mean that your assertion that he isn’t a bruiser is correct. And your Hero League win rate doesn’t mean anything unless you played Rag for every single one of those games. Even then, your assertion would still be wrong, and it would just be a testament to how you play him differently from the majority of the playerbase and comps.
See, this is where that research part comes in. If you’re really level 51 with Rag and don’t know his three builds, I’m inclined to believe that my initial assertion was correct, and that you’ve never truly looked into the character. Hots Logs is your friend.
Rag effectively has three builds, each based off one of his abilities. He has strong wave clear and poke regardless of which build he goes, and he has notable sustain in his Hammer and Blast Wave builds. These two factors are what make a good solo-laner, ergo Rag fits the role.
That said, Meteor is generally regarded as a weak/awkward poke build, and really only excels against specific backline comps. It’s not impossible to make it work, but it’s rarer to fall into those situations. Honestly, I can’t stand the build because it turns a melee assassin into a character who can only maybe deal notable damage every 12 seconds, and is scared to engage in most situations because you don’t have the shields or healing that the other builds provide.
Such a pointless argument about why Rag is a bruiser.
Pros play Ragnaros as a bruiser – look at any HGC game where he is drafted. He always fills the solo-lane bruiser role.
Are the pros always right? Not necessarily. Are they more right than random people on these forums? Yes…
And the same can be said about Tyreal as a tank.
Credibility? You can’t expect someone who plays a character to switch to the point of view of a player who’s never played him. I wouldn’t take Formula 1 training from someone who’s never driven a car.
Playing Rag in every game would be stupid. He doesn’t fit in every comp and he’s bad on several maps. That would weaken my credibility, not strengthen it. Ragnaros isn’t even picked at high level. Like at all. But if you must know, my win rate is based on 100 games flat as of now.
I don’t pick builds. I pick whichever talents are optimal in the current game. And for the record, E build is horribly bad. It was considered as a build when Rag was released, and players quickly found how crappy it was. Only inexperienced players use it.
Ok, on the rare occasions that a pro player will use Rag. It will be shifting meteor Lvl1 99% of the time. That’s how grubby for example, played him. It’s up to you if you consider him a good player or not.
Tempered flame, gives you a shield of exactly 173hp. That really isn’t much considering you have to walk up to an enemy to get that shield , after throwing away your only mobility.
When you pick that talent, you sacrifice “Resilient flame” which gives you 40 armor whenever you’re stunned. Now, most damage will come after the stun. That’s why it’s called follow up damage. Between reducing all incoming damage by 40% and getting a 173hp shield. It’s an easy choice for me.
But you should just test it for yourself. Take the shield on E and the Q talents, and see how well you do on the front line.
As I said before, you don’t have to play a character to understand them, and their function. Knowledge is not limited to your level with a character. Your analogy is cute, but it doesn’t compare to game.
At least we can agree that playing the hero exclusively would be silly. I was only saying that insofar as to suggest that it would only be relevant information if it was all pertinent to Rag, but it isn’t. My point still stands that your Hero League win rate is irrelevant to whether or not Rag is a bruiser.
I don’t care how many Hero League games you’ve played, but thanks for answering a question I didn’t ask, I guess.
Lots of characters have builds because they accomplish a particular goal that players have in mind when they draft them. There are almost always tiers were you can find variation, and make picks based on each specific map you’re playing, but builds exist nonetheless, even with variation. Welcome to HotS 101.
Rag’s talents are highly synergistic to boot, making subsequent picks to the same ability stronger and stronger, while making variation in picks comparatively weak. Not every character is like this, but many are.
As for Blast Wave build being weak: you’re flatly wrong. Those talents all have the highest win rates via HotsLogs, with no exceptions. It’s far, far from “horribly bad” and only for “inexperienced players.” But I appreciate the laugh.
~https://www.hotslogs.com/Sitewide/HeroDetails?Hero=Ragnaros
[quote=“phaseshifter-1283, post:57, topic:16789”]
Ok, on the rare occasions that a pro player will use Rag. It will be shifting meteor Lvl1 99% of the time.[/quote]
Really? 99% of the time? Are you sure? Gonna need a citation on that one.
This is either disingenuous, or ignorant. At level 13 Blast Wave does hit for 173 baseline when you pick up Tempered Flame for shields (100% of damage dealt), however, it’s unlikely that you aren’t picking up Engulfing Flame at level 1 (75% more Blast Wave damage, and 15% larger radius) if you are taking Tempered. This brings that shield at level 13 to 303; this is basic synergy. That is also 303 per hero hit, and with Blast Echo at level 16 you get two shots at shields, often doubling them at a staggered pace over six seconds. Hitting just two heroes is just shy of a 19% shield, which can be triggered twice. That’s great sustain. My personal experience is that hitting two heroes is fairly easy, but milage may vary.
“Throwing away” mobility is an odd way of saying engage. Do you only ever retreat with your mobility? Genji’s Dash is only an escape? Thrall’s Windfury is only an escape? Anub’arak’s Burrow is only an escape? The spin you’re putting on this is ridiculous.
How often are you going up against stuns, and how often are you the stun target? That makes or breaks that talent’s viability. It’s not even all CC, it’s exclusively stuns. If you’re going up against an Uther, Muradin, Butcher comp I’d be behind that talent all the way. But most comps have a stun at most, and how often it gets used on you is variable match to match.
I do great. He’s been shown to do great doing that in pro play as well. You don’t have to like it, but you do have to accept it.
Pros don’t play Ragnaros lol.
Which HGC games should I be looking at? His pick rate in HGC was 0.5%. he was picked in one game.
As much as I like that char. Ragnaros is not a good hero. He’s pretty weak.
They put the same thing about Thrall…who’s more ranged and magey to be considered a melee assassin even
I’m sorry, I both dislike your condescending tone, and also I think you’re lacking a lot of knowledge. Looking at builds online (especially on stuff like icy veins) is not a substitute to experience. And I feel that you don’t know enough about the game for us to have an actual discussion. A lot of the things you say are things that only inexperienced players believe.
If you have videos of those Pro Ragnaros E build games. Feel free to share them though. I’m curious to see them. But I’ve never seen any pro players pick Ragnaros.
Actually, Thrall’s burst comes his windfury AA. Q is just a poke tool to bully people in lane. But frostwolf resilience makes him tankier than Ragnaros, and he spends less mana as well. Thrall is pretty hard to beat in lane. Especially after he gets Ancestrall Wrath Lvl 7.