OMG Ragnaros is a bruiser?

Of course they are different =p Plus, Thrall is one of the best balanced heroes in the game, it’s not fair to compair. But you got the idea.

You will get a lot of value after the fight starts because you get CDR and % damage later. What I meant is: if you are getting focused on that much you either are out of position or your tank is bad at creating space for your team.

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I think the only reason Rag is qualified as a bruiser is because he’s a melee with sustain, but he’s honestly closer to a melee mage. He does have some great burst and some, which makes him good in lanes and team fights, but limits him 1v1. He struggles against other bruisers because generally have multiple or passive healing, so they can outlast him.

He is comparable to Thrall, but Thrall’s a much better “bruiser”. Thrall can heal himself multiple times at both melee and range, his primary poke is ranged, and he has a hard cc basic ability. Rag only has one heal at melee range, which is also his primary “poke”, and he only has a slow that’s tied to his speed up. Basically Rag has to play riskier and hard commit to enter a fight, while Thrall can stay back and better choose safe engagements. Also, it’s worth noting blinds wreck Rag because his heal only works if it hits (even though it’s technically ability damage).

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Actually, Malthael and Thrall are now bruiser as well.

From my point of view. I get focused because I’m ragnaros lol. When I play against him, I go straight for him too. He’s the easiest kill to secure.

But the cdr only works if you hit multiple targets with Q. And I’m not walking up to multiple enemies if I need health. When you happen to be in a bad spot, it doesn’t save you. I tried it enough.

Fair enough, but under the original conditions they weren’t. But that still leaves three that should be labeled as Bruisers as well, since they fit the definition of being tough but dealing damage.

Like I said, being tough is really suggestive and doesn’t really mean anything. Sgt Hammer seems pretty tough to me.

I agree. The terminology of “being tough” is without a doubt vague and indecisive. If I use the term “can fill the role of tank, but is better suited for securing kills than tanking”, I am at least an acknowledging that the term bruiser came from differentiating some that were considered tanks, from other tanks.

Ragnaros can self-heal, but not enough to solo bosses, and he can deliver a nasty damage burst.

That makes him a bruiser.

So Orphea is a bruiser too? XD

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If I know I could be the focus, I’ll just play carefully until my tank creates space for me to do something. If you are getting focused too hard/dying too easily, you probably want to take a look at the replays and see how you position or where you could be so you won’t die. With Catching Fire and Resilient Flame you should have enough time for your healer/tank peel for you if you get engaged on too.

CDR is good if you somehow get engaged on, or your team finds a good combo, or just good when the fight is already happening. You won’t hit 2 or more heroes with Q all the time, but it happens more frequently than you think. People stay close to each other and don’t think too much “we need to not get that close because Rag will get CDR on his Q” when a fight is happening.

Just one more reason why we need more use of multi-classing and the addition of sub-classes.

Based on talent choices, Orphea can stay a ranged assasin, or become a bit of a bruiser.

This should be my definition of Bruiser. Otherwise, where do you draw the line on just any melee assassin.

When I think of Bruiser, I think Leoric, Dehaka, Artanis, D.Va, Rexxar, Imperius, Varian, and heroes of that ilk. Calling Thrall a bruiser is boundary pushing and calling Ragnaros one is REALLY pushing that boundary.

Rangaros is a midrange mage, much like Orphea. We don’t call Abathur a bruiser just because he has melee, and heroes like Valeera actually have very high amounts of health.

They’re either Tanks, Bruisers, Melee Assassins, Midrange Assassins, Ranged Assassins, or Mages (If the bulk of damage comes from Spells)

However, with that said, it is fair to treat midrange heroes as a comparable matchup to melee assassins.

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Pretty much this. The term Bruiser came from when people decided some tanks were better suited for killing than tanking.

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That’s actually interesting because I got better with Ragnaros after getting good with Thrall.

I think the problem with Ragnaros is that he comes out as this Bulky “In your face” kind of attitude for the character when in reality he does not.

I remember seeing so many (Myself included) asking how in the world you even play Ragnaros because people just don’t seem to understand how squishy he is at first glance.

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Yeah, same here to be honest. I loved Rag but was never really that good with him. Then I started playing a lot of Thrall lately and Rag just clicked. Of course you draft one of the other based on different things, but positioning wise they are kinda the same.

That definition applies to pretty much every hero that has any kind of life gain…

Nazeebo is a bruiser?

Ok, first I have to say that people have a bad habit of assuming that everyone they talk to is inept.

Not everything is up to positioning. If a Zeratul wants to flank and target me, I can’t avoid him or CC him, and I can’t escape him. Same with Genji. There are many reasons my tank might not be able to peel the flank. First being that Zera will be in and out before the tank can do anything, or maybe he’s being CC’ed himself, or is peeling for the actual bruiser, or just has his hands full.

"Hand of Ragnaros "has too many "ifs " for me to consider it a reliable talent. “Molten power” will always get value, and does not require you to put yourself in any more danger than if you hadn’t picked it.

You say the CDR happens more than I think? I don’t choose talents based on what I think, I choose based on what I know. My Ragnaros is Lvl 51, with a win rate of 62% in HL. And my experience taught me that Hand of Ragnaros has less value then Molten power, unless I’m against a heavy frontline comp with no blind and low CC, which is a rare case where I would pick Sulfuras Hungers Lvl 1

Ragnaros has always been a bruiser…

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Maybe after he gets a health buff along with a buff to his sustain then sure, he can possibly be a bruiser. Right now though he isn’t sturdy enough to be called a Bruiser unlike everyone else who is in the new category who can take a beating as well as dish one out.

Rag as a bruiser has the same issue that Varian as a bruiser does… calling him a bruiser is 100% talent-build dependent, and eliminates him from being an assassin (which is what he was designed for, and what most people pick him for). To make Rag survivable requires skipping on giving him basically any poke, and going essentially full Q and survival build to make him about as sturdy as Thrall, but with essentially worthless poke, unlike Thrall who retains a solidly annoying poke.

So yeah, Ragnaros CAN be built via talents to be a bruiser by going full Q and survival talents… but then he’s still a kind of crappy character, because he only ends up with (count em) two damage-increasing talents through his entire build tree, and one of them doesn’t heal him (and is basically an anti-tank ability that loses value on bruisers, and even more against healers/support/assassins). I’ll have to try it out some to see if it’s actually as rough as it looks from the math imo.

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If you put 2 tanks to hit on each other until 1 dies, the fight will be very very long or never end. If you put 2 bruisers at the same task, the fight will still be very long or last at least 10+ seconds. You put 2 assassins at the same task and 1 of them will die in seconds.
That’s the core difference and what having higher hp pools and healing mechanics give bruisers/tanks vs assassins that just have high damage.

You can put 2 high damage bruisers (e.g., thrall and berserker sonya) to hit on each other and the fight will still be very long - being a bruiser has nothing to do wtih having or not having damage. Put any of those vs an assassin and the bruiser will mash the assassin into nothingness in seconds.

Ragnaros is most definitely a bruiser, even if you go ranged assassin meteor build.

Another tankish aspect a bruiser should have is ability to peel. Rag is pretty fat, so he can bodyblock well, he has a 40% slow talent (that he can use on teammate) at lvl4, sulfuras smash stuns (although minimally). And he has the D Q stun too (best cc skill in the game).
In terms of CC rag may not rival thrall, but he still has way more than greymane - still a bruiser.

Assassins, as opposed to bruisers, can’t win direct 1x1 confrontations, so they have to rely on their range or mobility to avoid damage or on their team to help them.
Loosely put,
tank WANTS to take damage (not for nothing of course),
bruiser CAN take damage,
assassin AVOIDS taking damage at all cost.

Looking at it this way, ragnaros is still most definitely a bruiser.

Another aspect to look at what defines a Bruiser would be to look at what defines the difference between tank and bruiser.

Well first and foremost, tank should have much more peel, mostly in terms of cc - that’s the only reason why Chen is not a tank.

But in terms of taking damage, I would say resilience to burst damage is what defines the difference. Both tank and bruiser can take extended sustained damage. But tank should be much more resilient to concentrated burst damage (of course, even a tank can be deleted in 0.1 seconds if you apply enough burst).

So while ragnaros can take a beating and stand in damage for ages, he can also be instantly deleted by liming - he’s a bruiser, but not a tank.