Off-Lane Tips for newbie?

General Discussion
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Hi, QM scrub here.

I’m trying to learn how to better off-lane (maybe QM is a bad place to learn, but I’m a bit nervous to begin drafting because I’ve never tried it before…)

Anyways, can anyone provide insight into when an off-laner should be pushing vs double-soaking vs going to objectives? I know it probably depends on the map and such. In QM at my MMR people usually just expect everyone to go to every objective or be endlessly flamed (even if it’s like 3v5 haha…).

Just finished a game on Cursed Hollow. First tribute spawned bottom, so I started double soaking mid/top as our off-laner. The enemy team had an Aba comp. Aba was mostly hatting people in the 4v4 bottom, but also kind of soaking. With Aba help the 4v4 was going somewhat poorly. Our Zarya stalled the cap for forever though, and I decided to go down once some of our team respawned, since they were endlessly pinging and insulting me, and we won the first trib. Should I have gone to the tribute right away instead of trying to double soak in this case?

I guess I’m not looking for something super specific maybe just some pointers. Like, what should I do if their off-lane goes to obj? Should I go too? What if their off-laner doesn’t go? Should I stay? Are there some objectives I should always go to? Or should I just always go to every objective?

Thanks!

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If it’s a 0/3 or 1/3 tribute, no. Keep soaking and try to get the team to delay the tribute capture as long as possible. You may accrue a big level lead as long as your team doesn’t die 5v4 at the tribute. Being up two levels in exchange for a 1/3 tribute is a big win for your team.

What if their off-laner doesn’t go? Should I stay?

Stay if the other laner stays, unless it’s a 2/3 tribute, in which case you should help your team (getting the curse will yield you far more structures and exp than continuing 1v1:ing against their laner)

Are there some objectives I should always go to? Or should I just always go to every objective?

You can skip 0/3 and 1/3 tributes as solo laner/off laner. If you have a global like Falstad or Dehaka, you can soak as long as possible and burrow/fly into the objective at the last second right before it spawns, leaving their laner top, and making the fight a 5v4 in your favor. Unless the enemy laner is Brightwing they will never arrive in time and you are advantaged.

Our Zarya stalled the cap for forever though, and I decided to go down once some of our team respawned, since they were endlessly pinging and insulting me, and we won the first trib. Should I have gone to the tribute right away instead of trying to double soak in this case?

No, you did the optimal play, and they are clueless for ping spamming you. That is the dream scenario: Zarya pokes the tribute forever, you gain more and more exp, the enemy falls behind in levels, and all they have to show for it is an early (non-activating) tribute.

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If you are close to a talent tier level, tell you team that’s what you plan on doing and get that talent, then join the fight. If there is an enemy hero in a position to actually hit a fort, duel them first and force them back before going to the objective.

Otherwise, just show up to the team fight on time, see if you can win the fight before the enemy solo laner shows up, and then get back to camps and lanes. It’s not necessarily the best call, but it’s the safest call and anything else probably needs you to co-ordinate with the specific team.

Generally, you don’t want to be pushing unless you have a good idea of where the enemy team is. If you don’t, pushing is likely to get you ganked.

As for double soaking, this usually comes up when you have a hero who is very fast at clearing waves, and the enemy team doesn’t have a super strong push hero. It’s also a bit map specific. Especially on larger or more camp heavy maps, I would recommend single lane + camp over trying to double soak.

Which leads into the matter of taking camps. Generally, when taking camps is the one time is really important to try to push lanes. Pushing the lane up to the enemy gate will usually buy you enough space and time to grab the camp.

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This is what I do as Dehaka. People who insist I should instantly be at the trib are bronzes who don’t understand HotS.

I only burrow in when the timer is 0.01. I kill as many minions as possible before that. And if the trib is a meaningless early one, the team will delay it while I soak even more exp (again I will only burrow in if it’s one that matters for activating curse).

There are other objectives with different standards, but here OP mentioned Cursed Hollow so that’s my take on it.

I also love picking Dehaka for Dragon Shire. I practically never go with team there when I’m solo top. I take “racecar” build and try to cap top, bot, then ultimately dragon as much as possible. The team can fight. I’m not solo tanking as Dehaka anyway. I pick him to lane.

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This actually changes things from the normal solo lane advice. Comps built around Abathur and The Lost Vikings want to stall the first tribute as long as possible, so they can gain levels before committing to anything major. Ideally they will be able to outsoak you as the solo laner, unless you are playing an excellent dual soak hero such as Xul. This means that they can get a potential level lead, and at worst, have heroics by the time the second or third tribute spawns.

Because of this, and only in this specific case, I would have gone to the first tribute to try and cap it as quick as possible and get back to soaking. Stalling things only works in the Aba’s favor on that map.

Any other time, Shapeshifter’s advice is sound, especially if you are faster at clearing waves than your opponent.

There is one more caveat, if you are laning on a global hero, such as Dehaka, stay in lane as long as possible and Z into the objective. Never use your Z to simply get to a lane when you can walk there, always use it to get max value on two parts of the map, such as soaking a last wave, then popping up in the middle of a team fight.

Be aware that the solo laner will likely get grief no matter what you choose to do. If you show up to a fight, you are blamed for losing soak. If you soak, you are blamed for missing a fight. Don’t let it get to you, it happens to anyone who plays the solo lane.

My last, and most important piece of advice, whatever you choose to do at any given time, commit to that. As soon as you make a decision, go and do it. A wishy-washy solo laner who starts to do one thing, changes their mind, starts to do something else, then changes their mind again, is missing out on both opportunities.

Edit: I almost forgot, my real last and really most important piece of advice in the solo lane is look at your mini-map. Constantly. Relentlessly. Ferociously. You absolutely must know what is happening outside of your lane in order to make good decisions. If you do not see the enemy team, there is a good chance they are rotating to gank you. If your team is in trouble, you may need to leave the lane to help. Whatever else you learn from this thread, look at your mini-map!

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Nah, like Hoku said (and Shape) stalling tribs is the superior call 99% of the time. It just requires coordination or acceptance from teammates so you wont see it in every game.

There are CCL games where early tribs were delayed as much as 3-4 minutes.

You don’t need to show up for every objective on CH as the laner. It can be harmful. You gamble on getting a meaningless early trib in exchange for multiple waves of experience.

Also:

If you show up to a fight, you are blamed for losing soak. If you soak, you are blamed for missing a fight.

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Looked over 6 minutes to me but I get your point.

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QM is as good as any other place. People can be good in QM too, it’s just that you don’t know your MMR.

I’ve been there too. You just ignore them and think differently. People who flame you for not getting the objective usually only look at the damage dealt to heroes as an indicator of “are you doing well in the game”. As an offlaner, you should look at the experience brought to the team (I find the damage dealt to structure is sometimes irrelevant).

Normally it’s fine to do that.
However, if it’s the first objective, Aba tends to have a low impact in teamfight. He should be soaking while they stall, but people don’t know how to stall at this level.
The best choice would be to go with your whole team , get the objective quickly after clearing lanes, and go back to lanes quickly (regardless of whether you got the objective or not).
Well, if you didn’t go in the first place, the second best choice was the one you made in my opinion.

So you did pretty well.

Look at Fan’s Twitch and Youtube channels, he plays a lot of offlane, and he sometimes explain (look for his “Hero overexplained” videos).
Basically your role is to get the experience from lanes, but you should also be able to get to teamfights quickly so your team doesn’t die for nothing.
Also if you have a hero that allows you to, get some camps. Don’t forget to communicate and ping to let your team know of what you’re doing. It’s really important as the solo laner, because you’re a bit apart from the rest of your team.

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Besides a lot of the advice given here, probably the best advice I can give is communicate with your team. Are you going to keep soaking to get the next talent tier? Let them know. Gonna cap a camp? Ping it or type in chat to let them know. Are you going to use an opportunity to gank? Ping the enemy/type in chat.

An INCREDIBLE amount of issues in games with off-laners stem from lack of clear, consistent communication with the rest of the team. Don’t be afraid to ask a teammate to initiate a gank to help kill/fend off the person you’re laning against or for help taking a quick camp as an example.

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Exactly, that’s why it’s not the safest: your teammates always can play the idiot card.

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Aba comp are usually weak in teamfights early game, so that’s then you do want to join your team.

Otherwise, if one of your team mates is dead, there’s no point in you going in.

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I agree with Shapeshifter, just with a bit less consciousness.

The core answer is, if you can achieve more by pushing than showing up at the objective, then you push, otherwise participate. Also goes the other way, if your opponent doesn’t leave, it might be advantageous to be lured to stay, or maybe join the objective having built a significant wave to push. That’s why you usually want to capture mercenaries right before the objective.

I try to show up for each objective, but if I end up stuck in my lane I don’t stress it. Details depend on the objective, being half a minute late on Volskaya is much less of an issue. On the other hand, even the poopest hero can shoot 25-30% of Sky Temple by standing on the point mounted safely, until the guardians spawn.

There is also a funny element. Objectives slightly outscale everything else, so trading an early objective to the enemy for a later objective of yours is advantageous, as long as you don’t autolose due to the trade.

So it’s important to be on the same page about it.

There are some people super focused on objective and toxic. Annoying combo to play with. These are the people who rush into the objective 1v5 with a melee hero. Their devotion is admirable and clearly helpful when everything goes well, but sometimes it doesn’t :slight_smile:

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Just wanna mention that when attempting to rotate look at how’s being left behind or who’s deciding to go soak by themselves.
There’s a good number of heroes who severely lack waveclear that should stick with the team in the early game, namely tanks and healers. It’s a huge waste to have a Garrosh or Medic trying to catch up on soak because your teammates are too busy chasing quest dings or kills, so even if you don’t have the best wave clear on the team you should be soaking in their place.

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Imo, it’s a good place to learn, since in QM you need to learn every role with any Hero.

If they have nice siege dmg and the enemy won’t gank him (or if they will, he can escape).

If they don’t have good siege dmg but can clear waves and traver between lanes fast.

Early objectives are usually weak/skippable and

It’s basically just a waste of time.

But if your team hard commits, you need to as well.
Try to communicate your intentions with your team.

Aba is a situation when pushing is more important than soaking. Try to push on Aba’s lane.

Depends on your team’s willingness, gamesense and cooperation.

But if it’s an objective which gives a direct boost to the enemy, stay and leave with the enemy laner.
Also try to time some camps for the obj so “you” push even while the lanes are empty.

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