Well you can t compare teams at HGC who are cordinated and have a deeper understanding on how the mehanics work with 5 random people playing together with zero cordination
2 Likes
Iām not HGC player and Iāve won with weird comps. Tankless comps, 2 bruisers, tassadar solo healer, etc. You just need to recognize your strenghts and what is the win condition for the enemy team. No need to be that well coordinated tbh.
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Thatās fine I suppose and I would tolerate it, but again, in over 10k+ games in ranked I have yet to miss a ban, if I can do it, others should too.
By missing a ban, Iām talking like missing them all to warrant a report. But even then, Iām okay if they agree to take the remaining role, if the draft discussion happened without them.
I suppose, only if they miss all 2/3 bans and get a random hero or come back and refuse to fill, then it would merit a report.
Me too, but you need to communicate that with your team and have them agree so that we at least synergize together. There needs to me a reason to do off-meta stuff and you need to CONSIDER the other players, you are not the center of the universeā¦
If all 4 people went to the objective (as you should) and the plan was to be there as 5 to contest, he should also be there. Look, i;m not saying all 5 need to be at the objective all the timeā¦ Iām talking about someone who SPECIFICALLY: REFUSES to play with his teamā¦
Snowflake detected! Roger, we got a CODE WHITE!
Considering that this game is a multiplayer competitive game. The goal is to win, ultimately. Nobody plays to lose (see previous posts). Therefore, if you are ACTIVELY doing things that reduce your chance of victory, I consider it a form of griefing and it should be reportable. Itās unsportsmanlike.
Itās like if a Hockey Goalie let some shots in on purpose or refused to make saves from a breakawayā¦ The expectation of a goalie is that he tries his best and uses everything he possibly can to prevent the enemy team from scoring.
The expectation is that you will try to win. You win the game by going to objectives (with some scenarios where you do not need toā¦ Iām not arguing that), team fighting and pushing the enemy core. Yes iām simplifying it, but you get the idea.
Nice anecdote, but can you honestly say that this is a legit strategy? 9 times out of 10, you would lose. That Sylvanas is not a team player and I would report her, win or lose.
Iāll bite, He choses to make the game harder by playing while blindfolded and with no sound and muted. At 10 minutes, he is still in base running into a wall, he has every intention of trying to win despite this handicap, is he better than I am for willingly playing with a handicap? Noā¦ he is just ruining the game for the others.
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If they miss all bans and then just select what they want and play whatever, maybe you could write a report for non-participation and explaining what happened. Then thatās fine.
Do you need to communicate? Thereās no such rule saying people have to communicate. Yeah itās a bad thing not wanting to fill, one tricking or only playing what you want, but this is still not against the rules at all. Itās just against the common sense and being a bad teammate.
In teammates I suppose the majority should be followed. If 4 players want to do the objective, the boss, camp, core, whatever, then the other players should follow. If they donāt, then they are just being bad teammates, but that is not reportable either unless he is specifically saying he doesnāt want to help.
Nah, Iām just following the rules, as you also should. You want people to respect the afk/non-participation rules but you donāt want to respect the abusive chat rules. Come on, this is just hypocrisy or you tried to troll, I donāt really know. Even if this wasnāt in the rules, have common sense, be nice and donāt call others braindeads. This is just as bad as being afk in base.
Considering this is a game, the goal is to have fun just like any other game, not matter if you win or lose. If someone is trolling on purpose to just make people lose then yeah, you should report then. BUT, the thing is how to identify that someone is just a bad inexperienced player (especially in lower levels) and when he is trolling.
How can you be sure someone isnāt trying his best but is just having a really bad match? I had matches where it looked like I was literally trolling and died 7-8 times (even I said to me āwhy am I trolling so bad?ā), but I was just having a really bad match but trying my best. You can never tell if someone is bad or trolling unless they say they are going to troll or it is literally explicity.
If you put your expectation on winning instead of having fun, then yeah, you will tilt with anything when you lose. You win by destroying the enemy core, doesnāt matter how you do that. Thereās no āyou have to do objectivesā rule.
Not being a teamplayer is not non-participation. Was it the optimal play? Of course not. Was she trolling? Who knows. She could just be a bad player and that is not reportable or against the rules. Everyone is bad and everyone has things to learn. When I first started trying this game I knew nothing. My friend and I did a lot of matches with Hammer + Morales afk in lane pushing until the core was down and it worked fine. We were just inexperienced players and we eventually learned.
5 Likes
I was going to just quote this and say nothing (using the trick that lets you dodge the 20 characters limit)
but
you do realize that flaming falls into this, right? Youāre ACTIVELY reducing your chance of victory when you flame your team. There are ways to talk to your teammates about doing the right thing instead of the wrong thing, just like there are right ways to check a bush and wrong ways to check a bush. Itās called āleadershipā
And if you want to talk about sportsmanlike, Iām not sure youāve even competed in a team sport before if you think flaming your team is acceptable behavior. Your coach would have your balls hanging from where your eyeballs used to be if he heard you flaming your teammates about a mistake they made, anyone whoās ever actually competed in anything would have way better behavior than some hard-tilted manchild yelling at his computer while claiming heās ājust a competitive personā
give me a break please, someone give this keyboard-wielding diaper with legs a reality check
P.S. this post is an excellent example of bad leadership if weāre using the model to describe me trying to lead you to be a better leader, OP. But there is a feeling of tragic satisfaction inside that comes from reprimanding blatant hypocrisy especially when the person committing it denies it
There are lots of scenariors where good leadership is all you need to turn circumstances around. The number of games Iāve won simply because of leadership skills and not giving up in HotS/WoW/other games is beyond counting. And not just tongue-over-the-finish line victories, but like, getting smashed ā COMPLETE REVERSAL ā> complete smashing of enemy team.
If you donāt wanna take responsibility for leading people in a team game, fine, you donāt have to. But do know that your opportunity to win in circumstances that look trying starts to get very, very slim, as does your privilege to complain. If you donāt want to help your team, then why are you talking, again? Darak wins those split-push sylv games because heās a flexible player. Flaming the sylv gets you a quick loss. Which if youāre after quick losses, then, maybe stop being upset about those games and start embracing that youāre achieving what youāve discovered has been your goal this whole time?
4 Likes
Unfortunately, your standards are not the basis for determining whether players are subject to disciplinary action. āMade a bad pick in draftā is not one of the options for reporting another player.
I agree that non-meta comps have a lower chance of winning, but a team with no tank or healer can win objectives. Any comp can beat any comp, you donāt absolutely need a tank to protect anyone and you donāt absolutely need a healer to last long enough in a fight to win it. Itās always possible to outplay the enemy team and win when at a disadvantage.
Why not do an objective ? Team is down a talent tier, and or missing 1 player Healer (dead) or 2 people one of them the tank.
Refuse to join team fights ? again if I can count, and the number of enemies > number of team matesā¦ pass.
As far as missing a ban in draft, that can sometimes be strategic.
calling some hypothetical person braindead is not abusiveā¦ abusive is when you are constantly talking trash. Iād rather someone talking trash while I mute him then afk in base or not participating
Do you think I just report people for making mistakes? Again, iām saying I report anyone who is DELIBERATELY (knowingly) being bad. If someone is doing something wrong, I will call it out. The report only comes when you keep doing the bad thing to spite the person trying to correct the situation.
When you did a mistake and someone called you out on it. Did you ignore the advice and continue doing what you were doing or did you listen and learn something?
Iām not saying bad players should be reportedā¦ but if you are not trying to win, you should be. And yes, it is subjective, but if that player always does that, then she will get reported enough and get punished.
I would even want a message to pop up after a few reports saying something like: Hey, it looks like many players are reporting you for afk/NP, maybe you should start being aware of your behavior and change it or risk getting banned.
I want people to change their attitude when playing ranked, not get banned if they are honestly trying.
I liked the part where you assume I flame people and that it somehow makes you have a pointā¦
only hypocrite is you straw-manning meā¦ BYE. You legit tried to turn a thread about non-participation and make it all about flamingā¦ Go away troll and good luck trying to divert another thread.
It is abusive chat according to the rules and the CoC.
Just because you rather have someone being abusive in chat than someone being afk in base doesnāt mean one is better than the other. Both are doing things that are against the rules and can/should be reported.
Yes, this is the impression you gave when made this thread.
Playing bad is not reportable, again. Thereās no rule saying players should obey to others or should play in X/Y/Z way. Itās also not your job to correct players while in the match. What you should do instead is speak nicely in the chat asking the person if they could do this or that. If they donāt, then adapt.
No one told me anything. I wanted to improve and learn, so I looked for content that could help me learn. Thereās no need to try and teach others in game. People wonāt change because a stranger told them they need to do something else (rare exceptions). You are better off just playing your game and trying to improve your gameplay. Focus too much on what others are doing wrong and you wonāt see the many mistakes you are doing.
they will lose enough for playing bad and will stay in lower ranks while you will keep climbing. If you play bad every match you are just a bad player, and that is totally fine. No one needs to be good in this game, no one needs to go after content and try to improve/learn, no one needs to play the āoptimalā way. This game is to have fun. If youāre not having fun, then find other games.
I just want some people to look at those reports and see if that player is really afk or he is just bad. That is the solution.
This is nice, but try to focus less on others and more on you. You will only climb a lot when you focus on yourself. That is the best thing that you can do in any team based game. You will face trolls in every rank, even GM, but if you focus on you, you wonāt tilt and wonāt even feel the need to report anything. That match will be just another match.
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That was your rebuttal for why lifestyle problems inform toxic behavior (which is mostly propogated by conflicted young men in their mid-twenties/thirties). My assumption is: since your post fails to adapt itself to an explanation involving factors out of the game, the entire issue is not being seen by you, and the most likely cause of your sympathy (being a player self-admittedly ātrapped in āELO hellāā) is that you are providing an explanation for your own toxic behavior, relative to whatās happening to you in the game. That seems pretty reasonable to me.
By the CoC anything can be deemed offensive. Kinda adds validity to my non-participation reports. If Anything (Iāll use anyone talking to me without first saying āyour majestyā) is offensive, then the standard for what I find to be non-participation is also valid. Anything could be offensive for the right snowflake. The CoC are clearly up to interpretation and should probably be specific for what is deemed inappropriate.
Why are people trying to make this about me lol. Iām talking about player conduct and people are trying to turn it into some sort of personal thingā¦ What is reportable and what is notā¦
Nah, you know what kinda of language/words are offensive and those that are not. Stop trolling. If that is the argument you are going to use, then this conversation is over. Please be serious.
Because you seem like a guy who will report and tilt for anything, at least looking at your thread so far. So, we canāt help you now but you can definitely help others in game? Weird.
When you say you will report people for non reportable things, yeah, we talk about that.
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Youāre sort of right, anyone COULD take offense to anything. And although the CoC canāt list out everything someone might take offense to, it still has specific guidelines you have to follow. Frankly I find it ridiculous that there is a reporting system for abusive chat in a game where you have the tools to mute other players, but thatās a different discussion.
You still have the problem of reporting people for playing poorly, and thatās just not a reportable offense, no matter how you try to spin it. In fact, youāre contributing to problem of the reporting system being in the place it is by sending out all of these false reports. When someone on your team makes a bad draft or a bad play and you report them, thatās a false report, and you should be punished for that.
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If you are going to report people for not picking a tank or healer then you need to report everyone in that team, including yourself.
You as a team did not pick a tank or healer, you as a team assumed someone else would fill that role, you as a team didnt account for the person not communicating and did not adjust your draft strategy so they would be the wildcard.
If you are going report people for not drafting correctly, well, it is not one personās fault, it is the team who failed the draft, so the team gets the report.
While I donāt necessarily see any particular malice from the OP, it still screams āyou didnt do what I wanted you toā and you, the OP, donāt get to make that a punishable offence.
7 Likes
And then there are no players left to play ranked and you always play with the remaining 9 other players in the poolā¦the end 
The game switched from ātrying to be competitiveā to ācompletely casualā following announcements done past months. Your suggestions are very casual unfriendly and therefore I donāt think they would do any good to the game in its current state. Iām fine with them being implemented in high leagues such as master or grand master, but it would end in shrinking player base significantly if forced in lower leagues.
Or it would change the ranked culture to lean more towards competitiveness?
It might or it might not. This game went through several iterations of āletās make it more competitiveā which always ended in playerbase shrinking (based on amount of games uploaded to hotslogs at least - I am aware that this might not actually represent the real in game data, but rather people losing interest in hotslogs). When you see people talking about alpha/beta state, they usually say that game was more fun (compared to now when it is imho way more balanced than back then).
The game is not currently interesting for competitive players and/or to people who are looking for such environment. There is no organized pro-scene anymore (there are some third party competitions, but nothing what would make me pick this game over other in the genre if I was new player looking for something competitive).
In order to build huge competitive scene you first need huge casual scene. You cannot have huge competitive scene without having high amount of casuals first. So this game needs to return to its roots and rise interest of casual players again if we want to see any improvements.
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I strongly disagree here, casual players are not a thing. Casual to me means, someone with only a small amount of time to play compared to a hardcore gamer who plays way more. However, it has nothing to do with competitiveness.
We can have both, we can have a system that allows or facilitates a competitive nature where people actually try their best in ranked modes and practice and derp around in unranked modes. Right now Ranked feels like a joke that is no different than unranked.
I like the idea of reports in ranked to be weighed differently. For example: afk/non-participation reports in ranked gets you banned from ranked play and lose all end of season rewards, same with abusive chat. I do not want people to lose their accounts, I just want them out of my ranked games.
There needs to be a way to change the ranked culture and make it serious.
I think itās blizzardās job to setup a āRanked Codeā and be able to report players who do no respect that Code. This would include: Communicate with your team, support your team, never give up, do not flame, make smart picks in draft, etc. That way you can easily ban non-serious players from ranked without making them lose their accounts. It needs to be clear what type of mindset you should have when queuing for ranked games.
Examples of things I would consider against this hypothetical Code:
- āGG teams badā after first fight
- One tricks
- Players trying out new heroes in ranked
- Non-Constructive criticism āur bad and should feel bad, uninstallā
- Not communicating in draft or in game using any available method (Voice,text,pings) and not responding to teammates.
- Picking the wrong heroes***
*** Iām talking like really dumb picks that do not work with your team or vs the enemy team. Example Team A: Tank, Bruiser, Mage, Healer, ranged dps. Team B Tank, Tank, Healer, Melee dps, (you). Now imagine in this scenario, you need to play a damage dealer that can do great sustain damage but you pick TLV instead.
Essentially, the same as my OP argument, this would be reportable for doing things that objectively lower your teamās chances to win the game.
Someone just lost a gameā¦