New QM Doesn't Work... Give us the Match You would have given us without the wait


#46

I don’t disagree, and I was never an advocate for the changes myself. I liked wacky comps.

But it seems enough people were that Blizz made the change. And I don’t believe a few forum randoms would be enough to convince Blizz to spend the time and money to make these changes.

BUT that was also not my point. My point was Swandive was saying (paraphrase)" everyone should get to have fun, not just the low IQ players". You just can’t enforce AND not enforce comp at the same time.

So really, he’s just telling everyone who likes the change to get bent.


#47

He’s absolutely right. The game shouldn’t be catering to just low skill players who can’t flex enough or think outside the box enough to enjoy what is essentially a random game mode designed to get you out there practicing the hero you want without waiting a whole lot of time.

What these changes did was screw everyone else that enjoyed and appreciated the mode for what it was… didn’t actually fix anything (comps that we didn’t ask for) then made us wait 10x longer for the privilege of getting into the same matches we were in or worse than before. If you don’t see the irony in that I don’t know what to tell you. Actually I don’t care at this point. Blizzard caters to the totally illogical low skill player time and time again without wavering… without thinking about long term effects… and even without thinking about how it affects their bottom line.

The whole "get bent " thing? I don’t see any of that in there. I think like the typical casual player you look into other player statements and view everything they say as antagonistic or elite or something thats not there.

Blizzard also has employees saying this game is a failure in secret. I can’t help but to see that at this point myself. Loved this game … played it since closed beta. Supported it a great deal in the beginning. Watched in horror as change after change made it worse and worse. I have been voicing my opinions to help out … but in the end game keeps losing players. I can’t say I know exactly how much but it is clearly a huge amount. Obviously Blizzard is doing tons of things wrong or maybe they are just looking to hasten the games demise. Who knows?

And my response to this is they shouldn’t even be trying. I don’t care about enforcing comps… I never did. I always enjoyed the wacky groups I got… even if they didn’t always work out. A lot did… surprisingly and thats where the fun was. Blizzard got rid of that fun there.


#48

I’m with Maximus and Minky on this one. Of course there’s a middle ground, unfortunately Blizzard took a much too radical approach.

We don’t need mandatory tank+healer in comps, but we do need some balance, and their problem is that their hero categories are too narrow. Like Maximus was saying, the algorithm needs to know how to distinguish Jaina from Zul’jin and Sonya from Johanna.

Even if - in order not to confuse new players - they keep the categories somewhat basic (tank; bruiser; healer; utility) on display, the algorithm itself should be fed a more substantial categorisation tags, such as:
Jaina = Range, Mage, DPS, Squishy
Medivh = Range, Mage, Support, Shielder, Utility
Li Ming = Range, Mage, DPS, Squishy
Kel'thuzad = Range, Mage, DPS, Squishy, CC
Johanna = Tank, Melee
ETC = Tank, Melee, CC
Sonya = Bruiser, Melee
Rexxar = Bruiser, Ranged, CC, Pet

This is a quick made example, but it would help avoiding comps of 3 mages versus none, 2 tanks versus none, 1 tank + 1 bruiser versus no frontline. That’s what’s annoying.

So yeah, mandatory tank + healer is way more overtuned than necessary, but there is a mid ground, they just need to fix categories. Have one (simpler) for the players and a complex tag based one for the algorithm.

And calm down…


#49

You can’t really do any of that. There heroes even the ones who all fit into one category are not the same. They aren’t designed that way. Mordecai explains this much better in a previous post in this thread. Having very basic categories is fine… as it was before. Anything beyond that ends up with games like we have now.

There is no mid ground. It’s random mode and no matter what someone is going to be upset cause their tank is not as good as the other teams tank. Thats unless they force boring mirror matches with defeats the purpose of QM and the diversity and fun factor of the game also.

P. S. You could put way more categories than that… stuns, mobility, silences, stealth , anti-heal, more armor, less armor, HP etc… all that comes into play and all that is going to be some whiny post from some whiny player about how they lost because of comp only


#50

I mean yah, but whining will always exist and be proportional to skill, or lack-thereof. And more sub-categories yeah, all the ones you mention could be algorithm only.
I guess my point is (forget about tanks+healers for now), if we have a 5v5 match with no tanks or healers on either side, at least those categories would help the algorithm figure out NOT to put all 3 mages into team red, and all 4 bruisers into team blue, that’s what I was trying to get at.


#51

Your solution is to keep looking at QM like putting a circle in square hole. To keep on catering to the whiny voices… when a 1000% solution exists in fully set up draft modes. None of that makes any sense.

I am still of the voice… i don’t care about comp. I’ve won with all kinds. The more rules they add the more rules they have to add… because somewhere somehow someone is going to say "their mage has more range than our mage’ or “their mage is burstier than our mage” or “their mages have more mobility than our mages”… “unfair” … “we need a rule that…” over and over and over. It will NEVER end.

P. S. This is the very reason why all the heroes in this game are being more homogenized than differentiated… and thats the saddest story of them all.


#52

For me it’s about synergy. Tanking without a support is awkward. Kharazim + 4 ranged as well. Some short-range assassins can get problematic against artillery (Jaina vs Zagara). Either

  • nobody cares about these matchups, leading to a portion of the matches being trash from the start
  • great effort is being put into creating matchups where there are no obvious counters (drafting sites have good info on that, although matchmaking for fairness can get ugly) or there is an exact number of counters (rock + paper in team A, scissor in team B)
  • mild fairness is ensured by always providing teams with means of recuperation and mitigation.

#53

I am dying of laughter right now.
Instead of addressing the real issue which this change brought to bear aka " Make tanks and especially supports engaging and fun enough to play so that assassin/spec spammers may want to pick them up more. Make so that playing the off roles aren’t frustrating to play and deserted because of bad mates."
We get a “just roll the thing back”.
Those guys just want to play their pew pew heroes, 0 responsibility, will most likely cry like a beach when bad comps happen again after roll back.
This forum is so much gold, please never change.


#54

None of this has to do with the QM changes.

Making off roles, or heals and tanks interesting is all good and fine but that still has nothing to do with a forced draft in QM. Even IF people played every role… forcing generalized comps is a recipe for fail and no fun in a total random non-draft mode.


#55

I disagree.
Why do we have forced groups right now?Because a playerbase big enough asked for this. Thus forced comp was a big thing.
People spamming assassin/spec more and people playing less tank and supports create comps missmatch it is not only a matter of less people playing (while not being mutually exclusive).
Considering blizz listened to the community about QM comps which they did, they ought to make sure more tanks and supports queue to accelerate queues.
Of course from a whinner with 0 responsibility point of view it is soo much more confortable to roll back the change and beach about the failures of the system and pin it all on blizz.
So typical.


#56

Pretty much only you think that.

The rest of us enjoy games where our comps give us some form of sustain in a TF w/ some semblance of engage.

The majority of the comps the current QM sets up are winnable. Some are harder for one side to win than the other, but most are fairly winnable.

Instead of hopping on here and whining and complaining about it, play your matches and use the ones you are at a little disadvantage to learn how to best mitigate the paper rock scissors and improve your play long term.

The majority of games are lost because you just got out played. Man up and admit it.


#57

No it was just a bunch of loudmouth casuals who asked for this. FEW people.
Everyone else was fine.

This actually applies to you and QM in general. No matter what comp you got, QM is/was a learning experience for you to learn to be flexible, use your brain . Now its just a forced draft mode you gotta wait 30 minutes to even play in.

And rock paper scissors it ISNT… not when you have people of all skillsets. Its why I could kill a Genji over and over with my BARE HANDS on Kael’thas.

I never mentioned anything about losses. Maybe you are responding to someone else? Cause I had no issues with playing in QM whatsoever. I have a positive win rate on all of my accounts. And again this is what you gotta admit to yourself when you play in QM and complain about comps. It was never a comp issue it was a skill issue. That applies to every single crybaby who complained they didn’t have a healer/tank following them around the whole map while they fed all game every game.

My complaints were never about losses, thats all you. Don’t respond unless you are actually reading my posts. Right now you haven’t shown a clue that you even attempted to do that.


#58

But this way more closely simulates what you typically face in a ranked mode. Its not perfect but it is BETTER than the old way of getting 5 assassins.

The game is built around some resemblance of the trinity healer/dps/tank so QM should resemble that as well.

I have played many matches as assassin and NEVER GOT CLOSE TO A 30 MIN QUEUE. The most was 5 minutes.

Why are you being so overly dramatic? Is it because you subconsciously know you are just complaining without much substance so you inflate it all?

Oh the irony lol


#59

5 assasins is FINE in QM. If you want to mimic HL, go to UR… or better yet… go to HL. Who woulda thought that you can actually get into a draft mode and get the perfect comp with your cheesy team mates for free without stepping a foot in QM? Amazing.

QM is for practicing heroes… its QUICK match. Fine if you got a tank and a healer and ALSO fine if you don’t. It’s there to get going… not wait 30 minutes so you can get the same non tank/healer group anyway.

That’s you. Not me.

Why are you even here in this thread? You got something intelligent to say? Cause I don’t see it yet. You already got the 30 minute queues you want, some of us other players want something else. So dont bother with your strawmans and totally illogical statements about “this is the place to play hero league without the hero league bit” or telling me some crap about how my annoyance with waiting 30 minutes has so much to do with losing games. Players like you are a dime a dozen. It’s too bad most of the intelligent players left … (and for the most part out of disgust for the changes and the dumb playerbase as a whole who nonstp look for every single way they can push a great game into the trash bin).


#60

You are missing the point. The game is designed with Tank/Healer/DPS so its only logical to try and get QM to simulate that as best as possible.

Im sorry you want to play gimick matches but the rest of us dont.

I want QM to play a specific hero in practice. Its better practice if the match has some semblance of how the game was designed to be played.

Please post a time lapsed video on youtube of your special 30min queues.

Ill wait on it.

The only time my queues have ever been over 5 min was in leavers, so…

Uses ad homs then accuses of strawmen
lol

Just make a video of your 30min queues and prove you arent extremely over exaggerating.

Thats all you gotta do.

I wont hold my breath on you doing it as im sure you will say “I dont gotta prove myself”


#61

I’ve won TONS of matches as 5 Assassins. I’m not sure where this idea of how terrible they are cause thats not my experience even against your holy trinity of healer/tank and a dps… I’ve even won with 5 Assassins in Hero League.

You want a draft mode you got it. Blizzard made three of them but somehow you can’t get out of QM. Unranked is where you hone your craft of your heroes after practicing QM. But you didn’t know that either.


#62

Actually I wanted a QM mode that had some resemblance of how the game is designed to be played and I got that too.


#63

No you just want to be spoonfed the game… you aren’t even capable of playing without a tank and a healer or any other sort of comp…so thats your lack of skill there. HL teams still aren’t all standard either same goes for pro matches. It IS possible to go with things you would never think win matches but at this point you have no inkling of anything like that. No point in discussing it further with you.


#64

Then… play draft…?


#65

Yeah I want to be “spoonfed” a comp that resembles the design intent of the game.

Again you are just insulting now because you know you lost the argument.

Heres the final thing I will add.

If you make a video and post it to youtube showing multiple times your queue went up to 30mins I will retract everything I said.

Otherwise I will just assume you are just mad because you enjoyed 5v5 assassin games and are exaggerating your queues.

I wont hold my breath though because I bet youll say something to the affect of “I dont have to prove myself to you”.

:slight_smile: