Malfurion and Emerald Dreams

Hi,

I would like to talk about Malfurion lvl1 talent that causes Entangling Roots to sleep the target for 2 seconds after the root ends.

Personally I consider this talent to be way too powerful but I would like to point out something different:

I played Zul’Jin the other day and Voodoo Shuffle to get rid of roots and slows is the way to go vs Malf. Or was.

Apparently removing the root from yourself triggers the sleep right away. Instead of being rooted you are now fully stunned. You are effectively being punished for using cleanse.

I was able to reproduce this in try mode with Zul’Jin and also with Yrel and her Hand of Freedom (used on allies). It seems that all root cleansing abilities which do not grant Unstoppable work this way.

Consider following scenario: Yrel uses Hand of Freedom on rooted Mei before she manages to hit her trait. Since Yrel does not know whether on not Mei has her D on cooldown, she cleanses her. Mei gets immediately stunned and dies unable to act.
(Note: Sleep cannot be interrupted by damage for the first 0.5 seconds of its duration)

Using cleanse properly is pretty difficult as is. This doesn’t help.

5 Likes

It’s a good talent but dps tree aint no joke either. It’s a tough choice some games. Some heroes just can’t deal with it :stuck_out_tongue:

2 Likes

There are level 16 talents that aren’t as strong as it, that’s the problem.

11 Likes

Malf level 1 talents are pretty good other then deep roots. Believe it or not, the treent quest has almost a 60% winrate. I dunno if you can attribute how good he is to just his level 1 talents tho. He does so much beyond that.

1 Like

For sure, the problem is as Fawxkitteh noted is that Emerald Dreams is much more power than most level 1 talents. As you noted, Deep Roots is hardly picked in compassion to the other two.

I would rather a quest be attached to Emerald Dreams which activates the sleep portion, they could make it root for 1.50 seconds to balance that you get the power spike of sleep later. Right now this power spike comes way too early.

3 Likes

Maybe if they reduced the Sleep time to like 0.75 seconds only so that Emerald Dreams become an interrupt tool instead of a CC chain tool it’d be better? Or alternatively, require Malfurion to hit heroes rooted by his E with his W to immediately put them to sleep, so the sleep doesn’t go off automatically after the root expires and Malf has to be active in proccing it

5 Likes

The whole root to sleep part is no bug if that’s where your trying to head with this.
The tooltip for the talent states that when the root ends the sleep starts, if you remove the root, then it ends, and so the sleep should start.
If you have an Uther on the other hand that uses cleanse on you then it will remove the sleep aswell as the root.

You have to consider that Malf usually needs alittle setup for his root to hit.
And sleeps are mostly just for setups, the main issue with the sleep in this case is that it sticks for a little while after being hit by a spell or an AA, which then would be considered a 0.5 stun.
That is litteraly my only problem with the talent.

But then again, both of his other lvl 1 talents are extremly powerfull aswell, there are tons of times i would pick any of the other 2.

Sure this talent is pretty powerful for a 1 talent and I wouldn’t mind it, if they swap it with another tier, but on the contrary the devs did at least a good tier, where more than talents were good and as waterlong said, Brocoli isn’t that bad either.

Or they could just swap it with higher tier talents, but then there is a possebility to et brocoli and this.

They probably should change deep roots to make it more challenging to the other talents, if Malf gets sleep with emerald dream, then maybe he should get healing reduction with deep roots? Then it would be on par with other abilitys and would be considered more often, even though it’s hard to top ED. Maybe they should just put it in a higher tier as said above, but I guess the devs didn’t it, because they want to give people the chance to early stack brocoli, but don’t give them both.

Before that last minor talent adjustment Malf had a root talent that did healing reduction, they changed it to the Mana quest we now have with Deep Roots. I remember there being a patch note for the reason why they removed it, but can’t remember it off the top of my head.

I quite like SigyVanz ideas for Emerald Dreams:

2 Likes

So does this mean that if you don’t W a hero rooted by E, then the Sleep does not proc? I like that concept.

Or you can simply increase Entangling Roots’ cooldown by 4 seconds when picking Emerald Dreams instead?

This idea would be the worst possible balance decision the developers can do to fix talent diversity at Level 1. Combining both Deep Roots (bigger root area + additional max mana per stack) and Emerald Dreams or Vengeful Roots and Emerald Dreams would make Malfurion very oppressive and will NOT be well received among the community.

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Thanks Vitriuz. I find it amusing they called Strangling Vines with the healing reduction an “oddball talent” (it was) then they introduce a mana stacking quest, an even more oddball talent IMO.

Yeah something like that. It could require the target to be hit by W while still affected by his E or it could be like “if they are hit by W within X seconds of root expiring”

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I fully agree with this… CC can already feel like a bit much in this game, and then they add a talent like that at level 1 :stuck_out_tongue:

You don’t need exaggerate it, it was just an example.

Btw I remember a lot of players, who complained about this talent being better than higher tier talents, so what’s the problem putting Emerald Dream to lvl 20?

1 Like

His new talent already has 78% popularity but its winrate is not higher then Vengefull Roots.
Only about 7% lower then his dps tree talent.

So it seems that even when Emeral Dream has higher popularity. Its winrate is not higher then his dps tree talent.

2 Likes

It’s the worst course of action and I don’t think that Emerald Dreams is worthy of a Level 20 talent.

Contradiction. On the one hand you say the combination would be very opressive and then you say it’s not worth a 20 talent…

Just remove Emerald Dreams from the game.

Nah, just git gud and you’re fine.

Why on earth would you want to take both of those o.O? The treant would immediately wake up the target so the sleep would be 100% wasted talent.

4 Likes