I mean what other talents do you eant her to shine in?
Her purpose are pull and stun.
Honestly, they’d have had to overhaul her, not just rework her, to fix all her issues. Her entire kit revolves around her pull-stun combo, with Ravage in there mainly for mobility/chase. She is incredibly one-dimensional by design, and I don’t think a rework would be sufficient to change that.
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I do like her rework in the sense that shes the exact same hero with the same playstyle, I’m glad they kept that in tact. Like I said though in terms of accomplishing their goals with the rework they didn’t meet any of them and I’m just calling them out for it.
The reality is that it doesn’t matter what talent build I like, especially at GM level I need to take what is good to help my team win the game. I can’t sit here and justify taking Psyonic Pulse at 4 when it’s literally the worst performing talent on that tier now can I? I also like they added a quest for her to complete…sadly it’s also an awful talent that maths out to be worse than everything else.
The problem with Kerrigan is that none of her talents offer flexibility, they are all simply math talents which is the exact reason they wanted her to rework her in the first place because she had one viable talent build for two straight years previously.
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Actual goals:
- Increase tactical depth of her abilities.
In order to get same or even higher value than before, you need to land explosion. For that you got extra Q. Its not more smash buttons and forget. - Raise the impact of Kerrigan talents on her playstyle.
Q build is totally different playstyle than “meta” build, I guess? - Increase compositions and battlegrounds where Kerrigan is powerful
She got the highest popularity since the old broken OP state (compositions), by a huge margin (both ranked and tournaments).
Infernal Shrines is still her best map (God forbid people pick Kerrigan on her best map). Still popular on ToSQ, ToD or DS (so basically rotation heavy maps). Again, her popularity confirms that.
Not sure whats the deal with #2 but rest is totally ok.
So rework didn accomplish your goals.
Her talent diversity is not great, what is not really that unusual, but its much better than before rework.
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You forgot alarak also has ranged slows and the ability to move people in more directions
I call BS.
I’ve been using the ravage reset and cleave builds extensively along with all the talents at 13 and 16.
Previous kerrigan, no one took certain talents like queens rush and other dead talents.
There are even some games where I don’t need to combo, I just need to dive and lay down a stun to zone and keep diving.
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I’m not quoting their rework video as you did, I’m quoting responses from the devs via QnA and forum responses. These are things they mentioned wanting to do with Kerrigan…not mine. If you want me to link you to those responses, I’d be more than happy to.
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Memes aside Alarak ceiling is soooo much higher. He linearly scales up until level 16(i think) then his potential spikes like crazy. He has insane pokes(best pokes in the game that has an additional multiplier to level scaling) and god-like team potential with his setups+silence to shutdown ultimates and save allies.
Kerrigan ceiling is really low, abysmally low. Early game she is strong then overtime she has diminishing team fight and zero poke value. Sure Kerrigan has the potential to blow up a team but it is so situational, a correctly timed focus or repositioning leads to a Kerrigan that is out of the fight.
The rework looks to give Kerrigan some survivability and followup, although I’m not sure if that is what she really needed. Ideally she should have got a D talent(toggle) that let’s her switch between close and long range, at least then she would have got a poke and a safe finisher.
At the end of the day not every hero can have it all, and there is always going to be the anomaly Alarak of mobas - the toppest of tiers. Alarak the team destroyer. Kerrigan the minion eater.
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Btw
Maelstorm 55% pop / 49.2% winrate
Ultralisk 45% pop / 61.4% winrate
This basically never happens (TL, DIA/M, after nerf)
7/13/16 have some options, nothing amazing, but Im calling complete BS when it comes to no talent diversity improvement. Numbers are actually bit better in HL.
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The rework did what it mean to do, the uprising issue were that they scaled too much her damage and sheild generation making her almost immortal and with an outrageous output on top of her combo.
To properly fix her, they should have just lowered the damage OR the sheild generation ratio. Instead they nerfed both, putting again her down to almost were she was before the rework itself.
Nothing more that a “math buff/nerf” will be ever done to raise/lower her performance since she is extremely one-dimensional as playstyle: two of her skills (W and E) have almost no flexibility and can be properly used only in combo and not alone, while her Q is just an engage tool (a talent build around that will bring you very little value if choosen in substitution of increasing her damage output).
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Ultralisk is definitely improved I’ll give you that, even I’m picking it sometimes for the extra stun. The 20 upgrade for it became a lot worse though since you can’t re-summon it.
…and yes options are her 7/13/16 talent tiers are pretty abysmal.
7 - I feel like you can bounce back and forth between Bladed Momentum and Boundless Fury but it seems Boundless might end up being the best talent. Queen of Blades has no practically to it at all which is why it has the lowest pick rate and lowest winrate out of those three.
13 - Psionic Barrier is pointless because whatever incoming spell damage can just be absorbed regardless with Volatile Power since you have to hit a combo for it it work. Chrysalis I want so desperately to be a good talent but it’s so horrendously bad it’s upsetting. Just lower the CD of it from 90 to 70 seconds and make it canceable and it will be a good situational pick but as of right now it just makes Kerrigan a giant target.
16 - Painful spikes if still math wise the best talent on this tier, you land the combo and then finish them off were really hard hitting AAs. Unbridled Energy is good combined with Maelstrom but then you put more reliance on the combo and lose out on the finishing factor and she so needs. Mounting Potency holds no value because your time spent leaping around is after the fact you already spent your combo so again it’s practically isn’t really there.
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You can’t see it just as a math talent i mean, you say that the quest talent for Q is the worst, the worst for? if you need to deal with high mobility squishy like genji or tracer, you prefer to have more damage at your W instead of your Q? you have 2 charges, its potentially 200 extra damage at one target, you are not going to land a 5 W all the times to believe that its always the best choice, also you can use the talent to get a free Q against each hero every 10s, thats 3 jumps against one hero if you want to burst against a buffed W that you will have a really hard time to land against high mobility targets.
Her Q quest is good, the ultralisk upgrade at 20 its not worst, it can be used for split push, or stopping push, giving you shield and if it is destroyed you cd is refreshed most of the time, if they dont attack it it puts a lot of lane pressure, making them have to defend the lane while you can do a 4v5, you have versatility, the point is if you know how to use it
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Well according to HoTslogs, she’s one of the strongest heroes in the game rn, having an above 50% WR in all leagues except Bronze.
Maybe you need to double-check your analysis just to be sure.
It’s almost like you didn’t even read my post…
You listed things that it were suposed to be their goals, someone already answered you with the video that explained their goals, and about talent diversity, you will always have a talent build more used than others, that doesnt mean that the other talents arent good, blizzard cant control what people wants to pick or not, you choose if you feel good with those talents or not, can’t understand if you are a main kerrigan why are you seeing so much what other people picks or not
Honestly I feel like Kerrigan is harder, might be the couple hundred games on Alarak talking (and luck) but her new rotation and combo always screws me up due to badness.
Kerrigan rework is great . best rework ever . I don’t know why you cant see she can be so much useful now other than her combo . My win rate with Kerrigan has improved since her rework . I will suggest to try some new talent build
Boundless fury is one of the most fun talents in the game, it’s like playing whack a mole…
Looks like Boundless Fury might be the best talent on that tier.
My only problem with her is the absurdity of her combo in terms of meaning.
She never uses Psionic Energy outside of her Heroic and after casting her W.
Primal Grasp?? How in the hell she can make a primal zerg claw happen out of nowhere to pull people???
Why is she using impaling blades? Is she Vlad the Impaler???
Gonna echo the sentiment this comes off as more ‘life’ farming from you.
The sentiment you express, failure of the rework, is arguably wrong on the exact same pretenses you suggest, but you seem to filter what data you assume to be the case to suit the demands.
In this regard, this is about the claim of ‘failure’ but no point of comparison given to actually demonstrate that to be the case, cuz well, you wouldn’t want to actually do that, and you always put yourself on so high a pedestal to try to make it seem like you can ignore stuff that doesn’t suit you.
In this regard it comes off that you’re far more the meta-follower than the one to make stuff work yourself and break the mold, or well, to actually try it. Your point of reasoning for a lack of experimentation isn’t form first-hand experience, but a summary from presumably hotslogs.
I digress a bit there, but part of the concerning issue is on the lack of talent diversity, but even the capacity to acknowledge some talents do sometimes stand out is well and above her previous position, esp the most notable being that ultralisk does see play and that something else does actually compete against bladed momentum — which gets bonus points there given the direct synergy with Fury of the Swarm.
The current issue of kerrigan’s stagnation on some tiers is two-fold
- fury of the swam outclasses the other two options.
- its less conditional (works off any q)
- it boosts her damage output
- it increases her capacity to build shields without heroes
- it has direct synergy with later talents
siphoning impact does benefit from more q casts from lvl 7, but it isn’t improved by other talents, nor they it, so in the capacity to get shields, Fury is arguably better is most situations, esp given that it doesn’t improve the damage (and waveclear) kerrigan can do to better chain more q casts. also, siphoning only working off of heroes at all means its not helping out of skirmishes where Fury would.
assimilation mastery’s gimmick being the hp/mana regen the other being the orb-for-shields, and honestly, I don’t pick this one personally, and I’d surmise others to be similar, simply because minor regen doesn’t really help get more comboes, and losing the aoe splash attack is less damage dealt, which is less kills, less resets, less waveclear/etc
Either of those could be changed to be more appealing picks by adding damage options to the talent choice, or doing more than just being a variation of getting more assimilation shield. Otherwise a splash-attack is too good to pass up.
- psionic pulse
I’m honestly not sure if people don’t know that grasp-based talents also trigger off the pulse, but well, they do. Granted, I’m not fond of the 2nd aoe charge on pulse as i find that I just barely keep missing the timing on getting hits, and well, for people already used to kerrigan, its easier to not bother trying to learn the timing when they can just spec and build to play what they already know.
If people get more accustomed to pulse, then it might open up other talent options that do benefit from primal grasp’s trigger. But on the other hand, why wait 2.5 extra seconds when she can get damage out well before then?
I’d want to suggest pulse would be a better talent if it made the initial pulse have a bigger aoe, and then the second pulse was weaker, but faster on the trigger as part of the issue for builds reliant on pulse is that’s it is easy to thwart and doesn’t provide enough motivation to try to make it ‘work’ when same-ol same-ol does well enough.
So if the same-ol is working, why would people attempt to do much else with her? Until someone is willing to put on more a show on why she could work with other talents, or maps, people are going to do so because they’re habitual creatures that want to reinforce what they already think.
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