How can a group of melee vs ranged?

Maiev is ideal to port in and bind stuff down, Xul has a root, Falstad and Cassia have a gap closer. Cassia and Lili make Fenix useless.

Does not look all too bad for the first team.


At some point players have to understand that picking a niche-hero for QM can backfire really hard. In QM you don’t know the map and the enemy team in advance so why would you want to pick a hero that’s only good in some rare occasions?

On a different map, Murky would have sucked - unlucky for your team.
Your team has Lili and Cassia 2x blind against a team that still has a lot of ability damage so those blinds are most of the time not that usefull…

The problem is you. Playing QM and then complaining about hero composition is a fail in my opinion. QM isn’t balanced and that’s the point of it.
Play draft modes if you care so much about good hero compositions…



People don’t want to play draft and wait 500+ seconds. Also QM MM code should be more complex than just teaming whatever assassins of RNG

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People want to play the clownfiesta mode because they can’t wait for a real mode?^^ That’s their own problem… I never had to wait long for any SL match by the way.


Falstad and Xul should give your team plenty of escapes then, since their ults are huge engage or disengage tools.

Plus Maiev cage or ring can both be used to engage or disengage, and Cassia can take her pull ultimate to engage as well.

Illidan has hunt for that, or meta to get away.

Basically your heroics solved the problem of not being able to get in close, and you had two sources of ranged damage (Falstad and Cassia). The enemy team was much squishier than yours so you should have been able to CC and burst them.

You know what would help? The replay file. It gives a much more in-depth look into the matter.

I don’t know. Maybe you should have queued with a hero that can protect other, instead of one with flashy damage abilities?

You chose your poison, pal.

I didn’t see you pick tank/healer/support. And if you instant-locked the assassin you want, why must other people pick a hero to babysit you?


Xul goes W build, Illidan baby sits murky, Cassia takes valkyrie and maiev takes wardens cage and goes E build. Falstead goes W build and gust. Xul should take the auto attack shield.

What map were you on ? everybody needs to consider taking spell shield as that will reduce TT and KT pyroblast.

Depending on the map you out camp them and out macro them. Camp every thing push as 4.

People keep viewing this as a team fight game. Its about buildings you need more buildings than they get.

If you told me just the team comps and asked me who would win, I’d say your team would win very easily. You guys have so many tools against their team. You guys probably misplayed a lot or were just not that coordinated. Maybe someone was just feeding? Idk, your team is pretty good against theirs.


Some options you have this game:

-You have Illidan and Maiev, both of which are perfectly capable of engaging and murdering a ranged squishy. Especially if they work together and dive the same target.

-Cassia can take Valkyrie to catch ranged squishies. Also just good at trading into Fenix.

-You have a global, a pseudoglobal (Illidan) and a heavy pusher, allowing you to try and set up map pressure (camps) and create openings for your team to engage.

Falstad, Maiev, Illidan all have (potential) escapes, and the enemy has very few ways to actually chase you. The enemy team is the one with no escapes (only Junkrat, potentially) and the ones that should have trouble escaping you.

That is a mistake. They are 4 ranged, they have no reason to come to you. They win if you’re fighting at range, it’s what they are best at. You’re the melee heavy team, you’re the ones that win when it comes to close quarters combat, so you’re the ones that should try and look for engages.

How can they escape easily? You have Falstad, Maiev, Illidan. You can catch them if they run. Even if they always run before you’re in engage range and you can’t catch them, zoning can be enough to force them away from objective. They have some distance poke, but you can usually dodge most long-range shots. (And if they get close, use your engages).

That sounds like a player(s) issue. (Finding good opportunities for) engaging can be hard, but it is possible (and necessary when you are a melee squad). Maiev + Hunt + Cassia E should delete almost anyone on their team.

The Murky is on their side, so it is split somewhat. It’s not a perfectly even split, but there’s no need for that. There is no inherent imbalance in pitting ranged vs melee, each has their own strengths. Forcing equal splits doesn’t solve balance either, as so many Heroes get better or worse depending on how many Melees there are on each team.

True, QM comps have weaknesses like that. And Maiev & Illidan do have some tools to survive a Pyro at times.

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When you have a healer and they don’t , you win by not hard-engaging. You fight and do some damage,then back and let lili heal. Then you go back . They cannot heal any of your damage. If you hit and run you win. If you stay in the fight no matter what you lose.

They have damage, you have sustain. You want LONG fights.

But your team wasn’t heavy melee. Lili, Faltad and you are ranged.

Illidan not Lilli, i made the same mistake. Sticky damage dealer with self-heal is still not a bad thing to have.

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In addition to the points made, you also can take camps quickly and safely with several of your heroes, so you should make it a priority to grab those before Murky can bribe them, so they have things they need to do when the objective is up.

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More complex means longer queue time and no, the code complexity and wait time isn’t a liner function. If QM has more complex MM code, you will make this post:

Draft modes largely prevent this. QM is not and probably won’t be designed to.

That’s the thing though about the matchmaker. Unless I’m wrong and they’ve made great changes to it, the MM does not balance hero comps according to damage output or melee vs range. It should always meet some minimal hero class balance points on both sides, but otherwise, there’s no smarts behind hero power balancing.

I’d say the best way for MM to work in the future is to have some heavy AI learning that will observe games and create games and see how heroes do angaist each other and figure out how well each hero works with various combos. How do players fair with those heroes. Stuff like that.

Eventually, such a system could perhaps balance matchmaking to create more fair matches.

Bushes and rotation paths are meta

Well, I thought winnining in QM = Having more CC with front line melee heroes?

One way melee deals with range is by not letting range be ranged.
Ambush from bushes.

Against any hero with Bribe, you want to make sure they aren’t using it on your camps.

That’s you dude. I have a screenshot of waiting more than 10 hours without getting a match. Welcome to Australia where QM is the only option (Except peak hours you get up to 10 minute queues).

Since going back to night shift at work and not being able to play ranked during peak hours, (There is no unranked here) I definitely feel the pain of clown fiesta QM and have to deal with it. Sometimes it can be quite fun trying change talent builds specifically for the weird comps and when it comes off it’s great.

Just because it works for you doesn’t mean it does for everyone else. Personally if I had the choice I would prefer draft mode 100% but even if there was no queues sometimes I would still play QM just so I can learn and/or have the hero I want without having to fill.

Well we can’t have everything :smiley: In my country there isn’t even a beach/sea…
maybe gaming isn’t that popular in Australia…