HOTS needs a extra layer of complexity

You are not a big picture guy are you. Little stuck on the details. Still waiting to hear your ideas. Once again what you said was nothing new, and is all ready in the game.

I do not care about the details. I want more depth / complexity and that is it. It can come from a multitude of systems / ideas. I am interested in hearing any ideas that make sense. What are yours?

So lets hear your creative genius at work. Be detailed as possible, us plebs may not be able to follow your Superior intellect.

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First of all, I’m not the dude who wants extra complexity here, so demanding ideas from me just because I pointed out you provided zero makes little to no sense.
Second, yes, we already have objectives, abilities, combos and stuff ingame, but those can be made even more complex.
As I tried to suggest even with my first comment: if we need to make this game more complex for some reason, I want it from twists and details, from strategy and not a simple extra system which is a dumber, more generic version of talents.

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Man, too bad all I wrote was fluff to try to describe some issues of communication someone is having where they’re too busy focusing on what they think they put to bother to notice what they did, and then spend more time rambling off about ‘details’ they think ‘don’t matter’

The issue at hand is that for ideas to faciliate change, details matter. You can’t just cherry-pick the stuff on principle, but that’s pretty much what you do and it just leads to cycles of you antagonizing anyone else that doesn’t outright agree with you.

The irony of the reaction you have to something you bemoaned either just seems more of the double-standard manifest :stuck_out_tongue:

Instead of looking at other vidgame gimmicks, sportsball is prob a better comparison to the sort of ‘complexity’ that could be seen to add to a game – causal variations were mentioned before but it can be worth noting that organized leagues do have gradations of rules to their games that aren’t the same as pick-up games or school teams. Some have bigger courts, additional ways to score, harsher fouls, and a couple of other things that help fuel the distinction of play apart from non-pro leagues.

While having ‘different rules’ may be bad to further set apart the qm from draft playerbase in the same game, the idea of having outlets for higher skill to be matched with higher rewards can make other aspects more appealing – basketball’s three point line has different distances at different levels of play, a higher hooper, so the visual impact of seeing long shots and dunks directly offsets people that just toss a ball around at their local park.

To that end, the pve-brawl maps did introduce the idea of more consumable effects that haven’t been explored beyond a few cases of turret mercs and an aoe heal item; maps have room to see more of that added to the game – perhaps script certain roles or select heroes to trigger particular items spawns or change how they’re reward apart from the current methods at hand.

Similarly, a map could have the objective cast as a way to be a side all on its own. Instead of having the teams start will all their structures already, they could have to compete against more than one-other side to take and hold strategic spots to bolster the advance on the core.

This game was created at the time when people did not ENJOY the other MOBA’s due to their over-complexity. League has grown so large, and there are so many heroes (144) in league of legends, that it’s gotten to the point where it actually pushes new players away. Players who grew up with the game before it was nasty expanded grew to understand each hero at a slow pace. It was easy. Throwing someone new into the game with 144 different choices, and each of those 144 heroes have different abilities amongst other things is SUCH A MASSIVE TURNOFF, that I would NEVER play that game. I’d have a 6 month learning curve before I could even THINK about playing competitively. That’s not what I, nor many others are looking for. Heroes is getting much larger than it used to, and It’s driving it’s audience away, not helping. The people that play this game, seem to play it more for it’s team effort in fights along with it’s simplicity. Adding more complexity and different crap only means games have to take longer too, otherwise that additional complexity won’t feel like it serves much purpose within the game. HOTS was purposely developed to consume an average of 20 minutes per game, and the dev’s have stated that outright. DOTA games on non -em are consistently 45 minutes to an hour long, depending, another drawback for non-teens with jobs that actually PAY for the skins that hold the game up.

Generally, there are two type of fanbois reaction at this forum.

At this context, there are those who said “this game is complex enough”, and those who said “this game is made simple on purpose”

Guess what, you’re the right one, i have no idea how the rest of delusional fanbois keep insist the game is complex enough even after i quoted the developer who support the argument of the game being simple.

Back to quote, i agree on your statement. The game has a unique way to attract people who want simple yet fun to play moba.
However, some delusional fanbois could not see that the game is slowly losing it playerbase.
now even the esport tournament.

This type of post is just an opinion, a suggestion, to attract more players that love “complex moba”, or moba that could further customize your hero way to adapt on situation.

dev could just ignore it, it’s fine
but no one has the responsibility to prove the fanbois about how players are leaving.

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players are leaving HOTS because the devs balance around hyper casuals instead of skilled players. It’s like balancing the NBA around high school basketball.

It’s not due to the devs refusing to make the game extra complexity however. Hyper casuals have no desire to get better. Hyper casuals are also why Riot had to create Iron League to put the worst of the worst into a tier lower than Bronze for LOL. This group of players negatively impacts all sorts of competitive games but only HOTS is constantly balancing in favor of those players.

Adding extra complexity to HOTS won’t change the current way the dev team balances the game.

Your forgetting the old man gamer, that is afraid of any kind change. “Back in my day derp derp” ect ect. :fire: EVERYTHING IS FINE :fire:

No logic allowed please. This game is complex enough dont change anything. /sarcasm

And it will only get worse over time unless something is done.

Wow. We agree on something. Shocking.

We also agree on this. But we cant hold the entire game hostage due to this however.

I did not know this for fact, but it makes sense. Maybe HOTS should do something similar? They say 75% of the playerbase is in gold or lower.

I really do not think it will hurt anything at this point. And may pull more people into the game rather than away.

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I wish the I believed the dev team had a clue, and was purposely balancing around casuals. Instead, I think it’s the game designers, the good ones have moved on. You don’t see unique abilities anymore, and “reworks” tend to take away unique playstyles. IMO this is just because the designers are bad.

Does HoTs need more complexity . . . well, I’d sure like it, but the player base is completely clueless as it is. It’s bad, really really bad. The high school and pro analogy is actually pretty good. in HoTs there are a ton of high schoolers, but a small percentage of pros. I mean, I’m not even that good, but if I focus I can completely dominate a game.

That isn’t to say that I am great, it’s to say that a casual like me doing just what’s reasonable . . . goes a long long way to a win. Also, I can tell when there is a real player on the other team, cause that one person will basically set the tone and snowball.

If HoTs is more “team based”, to me, that only means that characters here can’t immeditaely wipe other teams. BUT, games are certainly decided by the tails of the curve, meaning, if you get an uber bad you are probably (as in 80% likely) to lose, and if you get a really good player you are very likely to win.

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Yeah, I think this thread has run it’s course.

Time to lock :lock:

Perhaps true. I bought Anduin and I was not impressed with his kit. He is basically a ranged uther with a decent “D” skill. Talents seem uninspired.

I do agree. I just dont think we should let them dictate the games direction.

Fairly toxic. Thankfully we do not care what you think.

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the ultimate issue is that HOTS does have a different style of play than other Mobas since it is so heavily centered around Macro Play and teamwork. The average player has no interest in learning to improve their macro play nor their teamwork, making devs balancing around said terrible players even WORSE for the game.

I feel like simply shifting the balancing style would take care of a lot of issues the game has. if people want extra micro to handle, they can already go play LOL or DOTA. Simply trying to imitate more popular games makes no sense since people aren’t playing HOTS if they want to experience DOTA.

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cuz its evidently hilarious that a person who tries to claim their topic ‘wants to hear it all’ that it boils down to about two posters just insulting anyone that doesn’t agree with them :stuck_out_tongue:

man, that lack of caring is going to go a great way for attaining that magic ‘complexity without details’ you’ve been shooting to get.

It is amazing days later you are still butthurt. You seem fairly intelligent, but I smell some kind mental illness here. Your inability to let anything go is suspect. I get your trying to troll, but I will say something positive for you.

At least you kept it short. Thanks for bumping my thread!

P.S. Get that last word in. You are fairly predictable. I guess I got a fan. :kiss:

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my concern remains the same: a few people content to lie to themselves and act out contrary to the means by which they judge others.

I get paying attention isn’t your strong suit, but your back-handed insults don’t upset cuz I’ve been responding to people like this for years.

When I point out this is a written medium and how people don’t need inpulsive responses cuz the stuff will still just be there later – or people can go back and re-read stuff – I mean that.

But you want to ignore the reality of that honestly, pretend I have to have mental illnesses and ‘troll’ for your attempts at ‘positivity’.
But that’s just another lie you tell.

Much the same way where you go from making another post to then editing a previous one to put on the appearance of givng up the ‘last word’ – its still you putting it in.

I honestly don’t care about last-word or otherwise. You seem to do so, and you seem to care about appearances enough to keep up the facade, but are otherwise against a discussion.

There isn’t a ‘last word’ when people have an ongoing conversation.

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Why? That is pretty weird. It is like you look for it, and of course find it. You must enjoy it, right? Pretty ironic your calling me out for backhanded insults, and yet above what are you doing? A backhanded insult. You cannot make this stuff up…omg lol.

There is no lie here. I truly believe you are kookoo in the head. Something is most def off…

Okay let us put this to the test. I am done talking with you, just like noodles. So please stop talking, leave my thread since you are not having fun, and go away. I am asking nicely, pretty please with a cherry on top. Conversation is over.

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So, how was xoxin incorrect?

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Hahahhahahahahha. It is like you cannot even help yourself. O geez. You are legit. Thanks for the laugh. Thanks for my bumping my thread crazy pants.

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I can help myself; what I do is with intent and sincerity: that’s part of why I still toss in suggestions on how to attain the complexity the topic asked to have.

I had a rather apt quote on the old-forums of pointing out that troll posters end up assuming honest effort is a troll to them because they rile themselves up in their self-delusion that they don’t know what they want. (but I’ll not link it cuz keeping this “short” :P)

So to that effect, I will very much try to think up other ideas to persist in adding ‘complexity’ to hots even if the topic host wants to ignore that part of being on-topic because… you don’t actually own the topic.

Otherwise, what else is there for this to do beside a back-n-forth between you and noodle to attack unspecified others and revel in your apparent superiority that comes from delusions? The extent of trying to want to revel in that sort of behavior would be far more the concern of mental illness than someone who offered a specific thesis, sticks to it, rather than someone who can keep their head on straight and blames others for their own inconsistency.

Its like… you can’t help fabricating the ‘worst’ assumptions about others to maintain your bravado.

I mean a key point in this is your own contradiction in what you think of my perspective: am I enjoying it, or not?

I did say perspectives like yours and noodles tend to get apparent contradiction cuz you ignore content in favor of fabricating it. So :+1:

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Will be a dark day for me if they ever add an item shop. I’ll quit for sure. This is the only moba that stuck for me. Absolutely loathe items.

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@Cheezus

you realize this kid actually do what he criticize to other people right?
he literally just quoted 1-2 words from every post he replied to and ignore the rest, while he actually never reply to anything

it remind me to this type of guy on office:

Boss: we need a new strategy for our product marketing, do you have one?
Weird Guy: Marketing is process of communicating, delivering, offering, to our clients or partners. To look at the basic, we require product, process, price, and place
Boss: yea…I know that, but we need a strategy, what you got?
Weird Guy: no, you don’t understand, if you listen to me, you know that I already answered that

this weird type of guy actually just want to show that they know something related to your topic, without actually having conversation with you.

the more you feed the troll, the more it grow

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