It’s usual internet since there’s nothing really enforcing an adult level of dialogue.
It’s best to reply to those who engage constructively… For everything else, just think of Jimmy Barnes’ yelling segments in Big Enough For The Two Of Us. Haven’t the foggiest? Well just give a click on that there youtubes and you’ll get my drift pretty quickly.
One of the reasons I play lots of heroes. Reworks are inevitable to keep the meta fresh. The other big reason is to be flexible in draft. I play at least 3 heroes in every role to account for enemy picks and bans. There are like 87 heroes to pick from?
The best thing anyone could do is play a bunch on the PTR. More data means better balance changes decisions can be made about changes before live. If they were massively underperforming they’d likely get a change before live. Even if a hated rework went live as is, they could still buff/change it later.
Or he/she could have an adult posture and not judge the book by its cover? Maybe read the book first and then make a thread to share his/hers opinions?
I normally would remind that PTR balance patches happened before but I cba.
Oh wait…
PTR primarily exists to gauge community reactions to things, and for bug-fixes.
Not balance!
I doubt they look at PTR numbers for balance except maybe for talent pickrate.
He doesn’t know what adult dialogue is so don’t even bother.
Still too much potatoes…
You will hate it in 99% of cases if reworked hero was your main. It happened to all the heroes i like that got reworked. I just switched mains.
If the hero is reworked so much you need to relearn it all then almost all ppl will just switch to playing something else.My exception was lucio. I liked old one a lot. Same for new one. But thats it.
When you main something you main it as is. You do not want all talents to be changes. These are now new heroes. And if new ppl like new “them” rework works. Diablo rework works. Ppl still play him and he wins. Sure old mains dont like it but he is played and its a success.
Oposite is morales. She is now picked even less then before. Rework pushed away old mains and there is barely any new players that pick her. It was a total fail.
Most are ok. Leo is popular after rework,artanis as well, rexxar, alarak and many others.
We will see what happens to WM.But the ppl who play her after rework will prb 90% be new WM mains.Its what often happens.
Well, in some cases obvious balance problems can show up. For example being able to instantly take out a big list of heroes with a certain combo are things that they definitely will fix as no hero should be able to take out an enemy in a single combo on which they cant react to (except in rare cases like a pyroblast which are designed for a slow high damage blast).
But they dont look very strict to it because the player base is too small and not realy representing the major playerbase. Thats why there rarely are any changes added when the update goes live.
Even after it goes live, the first week barely gives an indication of the proper balance because they might have simply changed too much so the player who plays it becomes useless, or the enemy doesnt know how to adapt to it.
But yeah, thats exactly what you said anyway.
Of my top 5 heroes, 4 received a rework, and afterwards i still like them:
They used to when people actually played it.
Sorry, I didn’t mean balance as in the typical number tweaks of live. I meant the data proves this hero is bad, and needs work. As opposed to anecdotal “evidence” from forum posters. Blizz has made small changes before live. I suppose there was a degree of confidence that the change was needed based on the PTR data.
I dont think PTR was ever popular enough. PTR changes happened when issues were blatantly obvious (Hazno up, Maiev OP AF). With a disgusting exception of Fenix I guess.
I think WM changes will happen and they will happen due to forum/reddit outrage, not what happens on PTR. Because whats there to look at even if people played it?
(no opinion on WM rework here)
A lot of which have been due to community feedback, not PTR gameplay.
Abathur changes from PTR → live was due to feedback based on talking to two people on the QA team. Iirc a developer posted it the two things were bugs publically, but when it comes to something being a bug, I’ll take QA word over others.
Other changes, the “poster child” being Orphea is that the PTR didn’t have her final numbers, they opted to not make a build with her numbers tuned down.
I suspect this is due to an extra week of inhouse tuning to find exactly how much to raise/lower the numbers of things they feel are not balanced is worth much more than PTR ever was.
I don’t recall anything else off the top of my head. Ana’s attackspeed from her level 20 talent is the only one that looks like it could be due to PTR gameplay. But that change is so drastic it feels like it was planned ahead of time to me.
I played almost every PTR due to bugs and wanting a preview until about February 2018?
I don’t recall a single one having “plenty of people” outside of when BlizzBrawlers were there to make custom lobbies.
Even at that point “plenty of people” is an understatement. It made it easy to find a game in a few minutes via draft.
Queue (I didn’t queue as new heroes.) was still 10 minutes in the best PTR. Which means with everyone at the same MMR, it still took 10 minutes to get 10 people.
That means they listen to the community, one less thing for people to complain about.
Thanks for the insight into the PTR. It seemed to me a good potential testing ground to approach balance and avoid a really bad live release. If the games played there are insufficient though, I guess everyone will just need to wait a few weeks into live.
Nothing will stop people immediately whining on the forums about how the developers ruined everything, instead of just providing constructive feedback. 
Sorry for OT, but every time I see topics like this I have some kind of deja vu.
It’s been same since what, first WoW patches in 2005?
“You nerfed my class instead of other classes! I’m done, good buy, rot in hell!”
Well, nothing changes since 
I like the idea being able to use AA and Q to heal and hold on my E and W to do a descisive CC combo.
Whatever they do with Q E or W builds to please people i hope the AA one stays.
Right around the start of the game, the PTR was quite popular, people (including me) were quite happy to try new stuff, and most importantly, PTR was used to also learn to do deal with the new hero, not just how to play it for FOTM free wins… I do remember they did changes out of PTR for the first batch of heroes, then for whatever reason, they stopped doing it, and people stopped giving a damn about PTR.
But this is basically from another game, with another community, with another leadership.
I think PTR is now solely used for bug fixes. It is more for checking if the new spells/abilities/heroes/mechanics actually work as expected.
Herein lies my problem with her rework. I have no problem with weaving AAs in when it’s safe to do so, but having to do so (and take risks to do so) to make the character viable regardless of build is IMO poor design, and certainly not one I’ll have any fun with.
The point I was originally making is well illustrated in the above quote, though: you can definitely tell enough about a rework prior to playing it in-game to understand it and pass judgement.
Ok.
It’s kind of weird that Whitemane being re-worked would be why you’d leave.
It wasn’t realistic to think that a hero who’s weakness is mana tension, could be built into having less mana issues than any other healer and left that way. Also, she was one of the strongest healers in the game. And they decided not to wait until she became a problem and just fixed it in the egg.
I mean, if you quit because something changed, it was inevitable that you’d quit eventually. Good on you for lasting this long.
You hit the nail on the head! they have forced an AA build on many hereo’s while removing what made those heroes unique.