What you don’t get is, that increased quetimes, will not result in better matchquality.
Even if they put more restrictions on the MM, you will end up in stomp games like you do right now. But then you will wait for it 10 minutes instead of 1 
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I’m sorry that makes absolutely no sense to me. With our limited playerbase… you can have speed, or quality but you can’t have both (ie: a 30 second queue with 99% good matchups). Which should be the priority?
Think of this example. I have a 16 year old boy who wants to play a basketball game. He asks me to go and find players for him to form a game with.
Method A:
- I grab the first 9 people I come across in the street.
- Game came together in 2 minutes.
Method B:
- I look for and only grab other 16 year old boys who play basketball.
- Game came together in an hour.
Which of those 2 method produced a higher quality basketball game? Granted I only used 3 criteria in method B, but you get the point.
The idea that taking time to find similar players in the roles that each team needs would produce no better outcomes…its almost crazy to me.
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I’m not sure how you came to the conclusion that a loss is automatically an unenjoyable game. But a 3-4 level lead and a team that is just clueless compared to the enemy or vice versa is an “unwinnable/unlosable” game. They do not make you better, they are not challenging, they are a waste of time because knowing the outcome beforehand spoils the fun. Every second spent in that type of game is wasted to me. It’s frustrating because I know the game could be good if only we had tools to facilitate forming groups rapidly and effectively, but we don’t have that.
Being a team game, you need equally or greater skilled teammates to play to your best, if you don’t have that, you can be as skilled as you want, but your effectiveness is greatly reduced by the ineptitude of your allies, this is not news. The opposite is also true. I also always play at 100%, I never play bad on purpose. The problem is just how that 100% translates into actual potential effectiveness which is dictated not only by your team, but also the enemy team’s skill.
Wrong, they pander to those who value their time. If it’s 10 minutes in and you are 4 levels down… there is NOTHING you can do to win anymore, you can just delay the inevitable. Yes, there is theoretically a ~0.0001% chance you can somehow win, but I’m not betting on those odds. Futility/Absurdity. If there is no chance at victory why am I even playing? Let me cut my losses short and stop this nonsense. For a game to be fun, it must be fair or else it’s just a waste of time. Fair means I always have a decent chance to win every game
I’d be for that… There’s a reason watching Soccer is boring, first team to get a goal just plays defensively and never takes risks and runs out the time. Because for professional sports, it’s about winning, not having fun.
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In a game that doesn’t have any sort of smurf queue and with developers that have given up that might be true…
In the rest of the world it means something… Either that you are new and should be matched equally or that you are smurf and should be matched equally as well until the MMR has settled.
By your own words.
Saying that a game that is not winnable is not fun is the same as saying that a loss is an unenjoyable game. More or less.
The rest of your arguments is centered around 4 level difference stomps, which is already an unlikely situation.
First of all, a comeback in that situation is not impossible, but according to you it is.
So when there’s a 4 level difference, do you just afk in base and wait it out?
You say you need a surrender feature for these kinds of situations to save time. But it is possible to win in these situations, but if you give up and afk in base, that chance to win is near 0% instead.
And even if you keep playing and don’t win, a 4-level difference stomp will end the game rather quickly if nothing goes right, so it’ll end quickly nonetheless. But according to you, it’s meaningless to even try; or don’t have fun as it is in this situation, because you decided you can’t win.
Regardless of how much you’re losing, it’s no reason to give up and it’s no reason to not enjoy what you can do, or try to do. The best moments are when you turn it around when it’s the most improbable.
I’ve had a number of big comebacks as a result of never giving up. One time on Alterac Pass, we had lost literally all of our structures and then lost an objective and there was a significant difference in levels.
Yet we managed to defend the objective, then take a boss and objective and then a surprise attack to win.
You wont experience such if you just go “This is unwinnable, this is not fun, i want to surrender, can we all just go afk?”
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He’s not even trying to contest the boss in 5v5 on equal talent tier. He just whines and clears waves as the tank.
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Wrong again… A Game that is close but lost is still a great game. 4 level lead stomps are not. Not EVERY loss is unenjoyable, but the ones that are unenjoyable are because the outcome is obvious.
They happen more often than close games… at least in gold/plat and I assume in basically every level under diamond.
Doesn’t matter what I do, the outcome is the same, that’s the point.
Your quote and the clip you posted aren’t related at all.
- He was mostly typing while dead.
- Team tiers were 16 - 19… how is that equal? And Kills were 5 - 20 for crying out loud.
- If you are down 3 levels but dive the enemy team because its the same talent tier… you’d prolly get reported. - He was on bottom trying to save their last remaining keep.
- The only one who remotely went near the boss was Ming and that was more of a scouting mission than contesting it.
- The boss has an open top lane to the core. So saying “They end here” was prolly pretty accurate.
Give this replay digging crap a rest and argue the idea.
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You mixed things up. We have a precedent here, not a theory not an opinion. I will repeat it for you.
In late 2018 the Devs changed and tightened the MM rules for QM so it would more strictly match hero roles, as for years players had been asking for this. There is no “rank” in QM and no individual MMR on heroes. So while you can have someone with the equivalent of Master MMR in QM, if they are playing a hero they are terrible with it won’t mean they play like a master. Got it? Okay…
So what happened was people of all skill levels flooded this forum and even more so on Reddit to complain that not only were queue times too high, but match quality was also poor. The Devs confirmed that queue times had increased on average for all players and rolled back some of the changes.
I know my queue times went up, even if I played a “Call of the Nexus” hero, it could mean I often waited longer, rather than less time in queue.
Now about Ranked. While players in Storm League who are high rank do argue here (usually fairly) about queue times being so long at their level, it isn’t an issue to you as you already told me, that like me you have never reached higher than Platinum rank. So why does this issue interest you at all, it has no impact on how you play Hots?
*Something else for you to consider. If you really want your opinion to be heard by the Devs, you will have far more luck posting over on the Hots subreddit than you will here.
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That sounds like a fallacy.
The question was not “waste 5 min in queue or 20 min in match”, but “wait longer for somewhat better games that prob still not enough for ppl” or “play quickly”.
Ppl chose the play quickly. These ppl prob played for years already which should kinda indicate they don’t have big enough issues with QM to justify 5 times the wait time for a match. Waiting 1/4 of the match length on top of the match.
And surprise: ppl didn’t feel that the quality went up just because 3 roles (Tank, Healer, R.Assa) were guaranteed on top of all the other rules we still have.
So it was a lose-lose in the community’s eyes. Like they felt they wait as much as they would in draft, but the comps still felt worse than drafted ones.
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If you take a look around there are multiple threads and posters that share much in common, I know you can figure out the rest for yourself.
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5v5 on equal talent tier.
reading would be your friend. Granted, the clip is when the team is at 15, but they would get 16 to try to contest on talent tiers having the same power spike, which is especially important since the other side isn’t 20 yet.
The notion that the game is ‘lost’ would also mean that putting in a ‘last hurrah’ doesn’t really have anything to lose; if they don’t act, they lose, if they fail to steal, they lose. The assertion you give “they’ll get reported” is a bad assumption esp since people are using chat in that game, but the deathwing mentioned that “nobody is together” which can make it difficult to get value out of a basic stun/clump composition.
While any actual action on the boss is moot, that idea of “I knew it from the start” indicates that the person is reaffirming what they thought in the first place, which fuels the actions they take to that end, which is just circular reasoning for confirmation bias: he isn’t playing to the extent he could because he’s already convinced it isn’t going to work out. One person doesn’t like that attitude in game, and the other bemoans the issue of some of the team lacking cooperation, and then being unwilling to defy ‘fate’ because they’re convinced it is already lost.
If people aren’t willing to put in that last ditch effort, then they don’t turn the game around; and conversations like that aren’t just made from that given moment, but it is a collection of conclusions made from the start that assumes people “don’t get better” by being down on levels. However, with a set of stuns and resets, it’d pretty much only take 1 kill to swing the momentum and shift that.
It pretty much takes more effort to give up than it would to try regardless.
That’s part of the issue of the attitude presented. While maybe the butcher got stacked early (hence level disparity) and maybe the backline is bad at aligning skill shots – a raynor pushing back the taunted target so ming/tyrande/dw miss their follow-up; but generally games that have a turn-arounds stem from players actually making the call to act, and not one of concession.
The tyrande at least scounts the boss and I assume they’re the ones that ping; Ming goes in (not to scout, tyrande already did that) but no one else follows. The backline need the frontline to hold the line for them to act, but the ones that would go in are the furthest and least active from the call.
If a call was made more explicit, then depending on build, it’s possible deathwing could land there (Via tyrande vision) and fear the other team off the spot; targets get isolated, and the boss could be stolen, get some enemy kills, and at least stall the game from that point while making up a few levels.
That’s part of the issue of players that conclude the game is already lost: they don’t act in ways to cooperate with their team to take advantage of ways to mitigate and overturn the loss, but they tend to not see that, and just conclude they were ‘right’ “from the start”
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But that’s where you’re wrong.
But I can see what your problem is.
Sitting in base, doing nothing but killing minions while whining about how you knew you would lose from the start doesn’t help in making a comeback, no.
And from that clip we see the problem.
You think you’re a prophet that can predict a games conclusion from the very start.
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curious what is the name of the replay HUD?
Nope. I feel just the opposite. I wait 90 seconds for a game that is a coin toss on whether its will be worth playing, or a waste of time. I’d gladly wait 3-5 minutes to increase the odds of getting a game worth playing. Those are facts.
Don’t be confused by the clique that runs this forum and goes around liking each others posts that they somehow makeup the majority of the playerbase (or whats left of it).
Exactly my point. High level players were waiting 8-10 minutes… raised hell on the forums. Blizz catered to their complaints like they always have. And here we are.
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And using my full quote is your friend.
If you don’t think being 3 levels down is a huge disadvantage… I don’t know what to tell ya.
Probably half of all my losses happened at the loading screen, and those games are obvious where the 2 teams do NOT have an equal shot at winning. If the game is to the point with kills are 5-20… you dont have to wait for the core to explode to know your team didnt have a chance. This is so common, dont tell me you dont know this.
That 20 second clip doesn’t tell you that. The second the enemy got the boss the game was 99.9% over. Please don’t play the “so your telling me there’s a chance” card.
In my experience, comebacks are rare and when they do happen its only due to the following.
- Enemy team makes a mistake. (like fighting shorthanded)
- New talents come online that strengthen your team dramatically.
- A hero quest becomes so powerful they single handedly turn the tides.
Absent those, you have the typical snowball effect. The winning team gets stronger and just wins quicker.
If you read nothing else of my reply, read this:
What I don’t like about the replay is it was only introduced to embarrass/bully someone and has nothing to do with this thread (new players getting stomped by experienced players).
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Nvidia GeForce Experience for my GTX 970.
i didn’t mean the GPU i meant the replay UI lol
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It went off my head.
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I’m right 9 times out of 10 when I play solo. I play this game a lot as a solo in SL (although recently, I’m staying away from too much solo as I prefer to play with people I know if they are online. Saves me from having troll games and wasted (unenjoyable) time. When they are not online, I play ARAM or if I’m feeling risky, solo SL.
That clip LOL was a lost game when I called it out no matter what I did. (Imagine being someone who digs through my match history to find a rare instance where I give up just to try and use it to undermine my words. Because on this forum, according to morons like lucifer: You must demonstrate and defend absolute purity and flawlessness to have a valid opinion. So not being perfect means I cannot have a valid opinion or argument lol)
I have a ~60+% winrate this season (so far) and close to that last season as mostly solo) Obviously, I’m not the best player out there, nor do I claim to be. However, with that said, after maybe ~5000 SL games since I started playing this game in alpha
- (Side note: yes I lost my OG Account and I deserved it and changed, not because of the reports, but a change of perspective on life as a whole, essentially why bother with morons, they won’t change or learn, I just have to accept that the world is full of numpties and I have to just play/work better/harder/faster than my average to compensate for their inadequacy in HotS, just like in real life).
I think I’ve developed a pretty reliable understanding of the game and of it’s average players. I know my own skill, I know when I am the worst player on a team and I also know when I am the best/most knowledgeable. Through my own subjective experience, I can tell when a game is lost around level 4-13. How? Patterns become noticeable. The biggest tells are this:
- Solo laner (or team) not playing macro at all, fighting more than anything else, dying and not accomplishing anything with their deaths/kills.
- Lack of leadership/communication and willingness/ability to follow-up with other’s plans/plays.
- Obvious thowers/new/inexperienced/etc. player on that hero/role/etc. Basically, an unfamiliar pick for a player.
- Bad Builds (Anti-Synergy/doesn’t make sense for our comp and the enemy’s)
- XP lead 2+ levels before 13/16
- Losing to the same thing over and over and not doing anything different or asking for help. Lack of adaptability and ability to “see” what’s going on and how to prevent it.
I’m hardly a prophet, I’m not right all of the time, nor do I ever claim to be, but statistically, it’s true more often than not and that is because I have a very high level of trust in my ability to recognize patterns and habits in others and myself. That’s how I can make a call like GG before the game is over, because I know that the patterns I’ve identified on my team and the enemy means that they have a close to 90%-100% chance to win/lose.
Here’s the thing though. I do all of the previously mentioned for both teams and use that to make decision on how to win the game. If I see no way to win, I call GG. I’m usually right because I have faith that, to the best of my current knowledge, I do not know what to do anymore to win. So in that clip for example: I know the enemy is doing boss, all our lanes are pushed and top is open. My team hasn’t listened to a single call all game, so no point in spam pinging the boss to get them to stop it, not that we can do anyting about it anyways, we don;t know what % the boss is on, for all we know it’s dead as we get there and the enemy wipes us because we are so uncoordinated and half the team will prob be late. But I correctly identified that 3 level lead + Boss + open lane = 100% loss regardless of what I did unless a literal miracle happened.
Yes I gave up on that game. People might say: Uh you could have done XYZ and won. But they would be wrong, because how many times have you seen a team magically “click” and play perfectly after being dominated all game? Not often right? Neither you nor I would bet on it. Yes, I COULD have went to Boss, leaving bot to die and died myself for sportsmanship purposes, but what would that have accomplished other than delay the inevitable? Even if we stopped boss, it was GG. With or without boss it’s still a 3 level lead.
I’ve been saying it over and over, these people like lucifer are not here to participate in discussions, they are here to win imaginary internet points, I just Ignore them. No point arguing with a moron and I trust anyone with a brain (only people who’s opinions I actually care about) will see through their charade. It’s not hard to know who these forum users are… they comment the same way to anyone with an opinion on every single thread, every single day (Hi guys). They use the forums to feed their ego and get dopamine release from the false feeling of superiority they get from those imaginary points. Their responses are usually all fallacious in their assumed premises and motives, rarely bring anything worth discussing and on top of it all, they aren’t even original, they just parrot the same stuff over and over again, and they all like their posts, creating a little echo chamber that not only gives them the fuel they need to get those sweet points, but also encourages them to keep doing it.
I think you made a list of 4-5 things in another thread?
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