Same. If people pick crap like Murky I just troll, too. If someone has a healer but doesn’t pick it and I have the only tank, I don’t pick it either. I rather take the loss.
Too many people in this game, that just troll. They play this game like it is single player. Why play a multiplayer game if you are not willing to fill roles that are needed?
And no: It is not ARAM! When someone chooses not to pick the only healer, it has not been a random decision by the Blizzard AI engine. It was a decision made by a player ALTHOUGH he had better choices! And this is just egoistic and puts your team at disadvantage. And I don’t care if people want to try out other heroes. Don’t play team games if you don’t want to be a team member. If you play soccer with some friends, do you pick goal keeper although your team already has one and then say “You know, I just want to play goal keeper at the moment, so screw you team”?
I have zero knowledge about your experience with any of the heroes (or your rank, etc) all I know is that as soon as you highlight Illidan - the 50% chance of winning (assuming we know nothing else about players skill, etc, which we don’t) goes to 40%. And again, it’s not an empty stigma it’s that exact statistical expectation of a much more likely loss -why people complain.
I really don’t care if you are trolling with Illidan or picking him for whatever other reason. I don’t know anything about you or your skill with any of the heroes, so my expectation for the game is based on generic expectation (which I posted above) rather than your personal win/loss record.
Exactly so you just assume and then “do whatever” based on things you can’t possibly know. And you seem to rather have someone play something they have no experience with than a hero they know and understand and call it trolling if they don’t pick what you like.
If that’s your mentality you shouldn’t complain if you lose, and by you, I mean the OP. Since you say you aren’t complaining. But by doing that you also can sabotage your team because of your assumptions.
No, it’s the opposite, I don’t assume. I treat the game as if I know nothing about the other side or our side (which, generally - I don’t) and that’s what yields the 10% reduction in winrate. You are the one assuming things.
she’s also like the 15th best healer, so in low/no healer games, having expendable hp (clone) can help the team block skillshots or help push without minions taking tower shots.
It is. People tend to see stats as an absolute and neglect analysis for how/why the numbers come as they do.
People typically only fixate on the perceived meta, and assume deviation from that must be “trolling” instead of players being experienced with anti-meta choices. Fighting games tend to do a better take on looking at match ups and frequencies of events, rather than projecting “it worsens your 50/50 to less than 50)
Murky is self-sufficient and can work without healers and tanks where other characters cannot. Illidan lacks poke and has to bide his time till engagements move from the initial forts, but he can have favorable engagements with common/preferred aram picks. If people don’t know how something can be successful, then they aren’t going to see something as being capable of that and act to confirm the bias.
The loss is then seen as “the illidan pick” and not the “i sabotaged the team”. Even close games that let that hero shine may neglect how “good” things were going if it ends up in a loss. Typically, people will blame any and everything that doesn’t agree with them before they consider themselves in that. So it usually does end up as scapegoating
Care to explain how this self-fulfilling prophecy works to 40% Illidan in ARAM and to 53+ in SL? Or maybe how it establishes itself since every hero starts at zero. Or perhaps how small tweaks in heroes properties change that prophecy one way or the other? Or maybe it’s just an objective truth based on his mechanics, e.g. that Illidan is great in 1v1s and chasing heroes which he doesn’t get to do in ARAM where he just gets rekt by cc over and over again.
Aside from pointing out how the loaded question infers the prophesy is thus applicable, and essentially looping the assumption?
False Dilemma tends to indicate people are curbing possibilities in favor of just reaffirming what they already want to think. If they are reaffirming what they already want to think, then they are going to neglect things that don’t agree with the False Dilemma.
What is presented is that Illidan is “below 40%” or a “40% hero” as if those are hard-line conclusions that reaffirm a position held regarding the evaluation of the hero, and not the reality that select people tend to comprise a lot of the HP posted statistics, so it can be more prone to have people that look at the site thus make picks on what they see and just pump back into it what they expect: it’s a feedback loop.
Illidan is not an easy hero, and he lacks some of the qualities associated with easily winning aram games. One could also flip the statistic and point out that his ‘influence’ is not as low as other heroes many would assume people are ‘obligated’ to take if they fit the assumption that “Either we are all trying to win, or we are just screwing around.”
Yrel has worse metrics than Illidan, but she can frontline, heal allies, and doesn’t force a mirror for the pick, so she can be considered ‘cheating’ in some match ups. I have not seen someone raise a torch about others picking yrel – they might not personally want to play her – but she isn’t going to be brought up as an example of a “sub 40%” hero despite having observably worse metrics than Illidan.
Maybe in your particular case you will raise caution about other picks that do trend worse than tl;dr Illidan stats, but the assumption of concern is that players see particular metrics and thus act to reinforce those. Illidan is a ‘troll’ pick, so if ‘everyone is screwing around’ they’ll likely take a hero to ‘deal damage’ and not necessarily one that compliments the choice at hand; if people are expecting to lose, they’re probably also not going to stall the game to get to the phase he excels and actually apply his strengths for the metrics people see on a site like HP.
Except that I would bet that 9 out of 10 people have no idea what winrate any given hero has in each game mode (especially given that those winrates vary wildly over different leagues/skill levels). You conveniently ignored the question how those prophecies are quite different per hero per game mode and how amazing people must be at tracking stats of 89 heroes across at least 3 game modes and (back when the game was developed) very quickly and conveniently work around those prophecies every time a patch is released. Makes total sense. HOTS crowd definitely looks like one sitting staring at excel sheets 24/7.
What I posed is addressing an issue you have in the conversation. The perception of concern is that people are against particular heroes in ARAM; while you can toss out whatever tossed you want, you apparently haven’t consider the basic difference that one mode does not have abathur, and other modes do.
Congrats, Illidan concerns have been addressed for not-aram issues on stats. Or do you need more particulars on the difference between one mode having more deliberate team options than the other? I didn’t ‘ignore’ the question: I poised how you even asking is indicative of other issues you’re ignoring in favor of just razzing people for something apart from what they’re actually discussing.
If you’re not sure on particulars, feel free to ask questions for clarification instead of going off into accusation mode and acting like that magically empowers the misguided point.
Our team went 25-1 without a tank this morning in ARAM. Enemy team had a tank + healer. I simply waited for their picks and went with Warchief Thrall over the two tanks it showed me. Again, why would I pick a tank when my teammates are all ranged DPSers who stay back? Warchief Thrall can simply poke them with lightning and stay topped off w/ self healing. It’s ARAM, you have no clue what comp you are going against but you KNOW that you will be the only frontline when you got chromie type heroes on your team. The naysayers will say I’m wrong I know…
Even if enemy team gets steamrolled, they’ll still tell you that you picked wrong! Even if it’s 25-1 in your favor, you doomed the team by not picking a tank or heals, according to their logic.
No, you got it wrong. You doom your team when you assume non-meta or low tier picks are “trolls” or bad picks and are uncooperative because of your faulty reasoning.
My whole issue with your mentality is that its “if I see your pick as ideal or helpful, only then I will cooperate” which is a trash attitude to have. You dictate what is good and bad and then punish others for it by not cooperating with your team if they happen to pick a hero that isn’t good by your standards.
I’ve just played too many ARAM and saw the patterns. You more often get poor performing players who think they are being slick by picking a Murky, Illidan or Medivh but they rarely can cut the mustard. If I see any of those you better believe I’m picking the highest DPS hero I can.
Last time in an ARAM game I had a Medivh on my team I felt like he lowered my overall damage by 20% by making enemies immune while I was literally killing them. He wasn’t trolling, supposedly, he was just not any good. The tank was extremely unhappy in that game, constantly saying he was reporting Medivh. I thought…yea, I’m glad i went DPS in this one.
So why would I tank and rely on the type of player above to carry the game damage wise? If people want to leave or complain because I didn’t pick what they wanted, I just report them. I feel like trying to make someone/pressuring them to pick a different hero is verbal abuse and should be reportable also. ARAM means “All RANDOM All Middle” which means we have the right to pick anything.
Just ignore the meta slaves and pick what you want. You should be free to pick what you want or got most confort at playing. Some people have too high expertations to a casual game mode. The goal of ARAM is to play different comps like some premades in QM pick 5x healer or 5x bruisers just to mess round.
Only reason people call Murky, Illidan and Nova troll picks in ARAM is because ARAM meta slaves have no clue how to play them properly. They just pick thier usual Azmo, Zuljin, Li-Ming, KT and then turn thier brains off.
Some people just think they are entilted to choose what you should be playing for them to have fun over your own fun.
I dont play ARAM to win or lose but have fun with different comps. If people want meta comps then they can play in premades or play ranked.
You just have an uncooperative attitude and think that dps is the best way to win aram’s 100% of the time. You assume every time someone wants to play medivh or illidan, they’re sucky trolls and won’t cooperate with them once you see what they pick.
That’s your problem. If things aren’t the way you want them, you’ll be uncooperative and blame every loss on someone else. Its a toxic attitude to have.
While I agree with this, having a sour attitude when you see a comp you don’t like or don’t want to work with won’t help you win.