Aquatarkus-Marrossi CDC #8 Concept Discussion

Hero and Skin Suggestions
1

Alright, straight to brass tax. The only concept I have in mind is for Akama and his Shade from Warcraft.

Akama would serve as a hard-hitting Bruiser Shaman, similar to Thrall. The Shade is a mobile Stealth Assassin who supplements his low damage with his ability to make killing and tracking enemies way easier for his allies, and his ability to return to Akama for a quick heal from basically anywhere on the map.

I have a slightly more comprehensive version of the Akama half of the concept in the works on HeroesFire. If you have any good/better ideas, I’ll be glad to hear them.

2

Ok so here are the possible candidates I have so far:
SC:
Han and Horner- coop commander, two separate heroes probably with shared trait or something.

Archon- either Cho’Gall like hero or two heroes that can morph together.

WC:
Night elf archer on hyppogryph- Two separate heroes but archer can mount the hyppogryph for some bonuses, Shandris as a possible candidate.

Night elf huntress and nightsaber: Two separate heroes but huntress can mount her nightsaber for some bonuses, Naisha as a possible candidate.

Mortat team: One spotter and one damage dealer, long range.

Goblin alchemist and his ogre: Cho’Gall like probably, support and warrior maybe.

Well Akama sounds as an okay candidate only in what way would the two cooperate? I understand that should be key part of our concepts.
I have thought about it and correct me if I’m wrong but basically the Akama would be damage dealer and also healer while shade would mostly scout?

3

Not quite what I envisioned Akama as, but actually a lot better. I’ll try retooling it so that Akama acts like a support with the Shade being the main damage source (if still fragile).

As for your concepts:
Han and Horner: Has a lot of material to work with for abilities, though creating a character presence for them both could be difficult. Plus, their technically both in game (Nuke map and Raynor Ult).

Archon: Can’t really think of anything/anyone who isn’t already well represented in game. The few templar/Dark Templar I can think of don’t really have becoming an Archon as part of their lore.

Both Riders: While I like the Idea of the characters being able to join and split at will, having one just be a mount for the other could deprive one of the players a lot of character personality.

Mortar Team: Could actually work really well, if we can give them enough personality. Like a better version of the Original Akama concept, a high damage ranged attacker aided by a disabling scout.

Goblin Alchem: Definitely could work, though I’m kind of drawing a blank on what the Ogre could do, seeing as its a chemically addled slave.

WAIT, I have a new idea! The main character could be a WC Warlock, and the second player could be a chosen demon, one of Three. Just need to alter my existing Wilfred Fizzlebang concept and we’ll be well on our way!
Welp, hope I didn’t make this all sound too overbearing or overly critical, but give it some thought and tell me what you think!

4

Well it may work but I don’t think stealth is a good idea (hard to balance and weird spot in the meta). Other than that is seems fine idea. Only thing is, is that a concept you already made? Because if so than we shouldn’t use it.

Han and Horner: Has a lot of material to work with for abilities, though creating a character presence for them both could be difficult. Plus, their technically both in game (Nuke map and Raynor Ult).

Mira was only announcer on the zerg brawl ASFAIK and Hyperion being in game isn’t much of a problem either.

Archon: Can’t really think of anything/anyone who isn’t already well represented in game. The few templar/Dark Templar I can think of don’t really have becoming an Archon as part of their lore.

Named character isn’t completely necessary but it would probably be better. It just may be to similar to Cho’Gall.

Both Riders: While I like the Idea of the characters being able to join and split at will, having one just be a mount for the other could deprive one of the players a lot of character personality.

The mount would have its own abilities and talents and everything so basically an independent Misha. Plus we already have named characters for the riders.

Mortar Team: Could actually work really well, if we can give them enough personality. Like a better version of the Original Akama concept, a high damage ranged attacker aided by a disabling scout.

Yeah that seems right.

Goblin Alchem: Definitely could work, though I’m kind of drawing a blank on what the Ogre could do, seeing as its a chemically addled slave.

Some cc and he would control the movement? Again might be too much like C’G.

WAIT, I have a new idea! The main character could be a WC Warlock, and the second player could be a chosen demon, one of Three. Just need to alter my existing Wilfred Fizzlebang concept and we’ll be well on our way!
Welp, hope I didn’t make this all sound too overbearing or overly critical, but give it some thought and tell me what you think!

Could work but we should make a new concept.

Curriously I’ve got somewhat similar idea:
Demon/old god (WC/Diablo/or even someone from SC) and a demon worshiper (there are some named characters in both WC and Diablo).
The worshiper would be mostly normal assasin or warrior but he would empower the demon by doing damage or smth.
The demon would be kinda like Aba’s hat (possesing allies to help them) and he would be stronger on his worshiper. Also he should die with its host or a least be weakend by it. What do you think?

Also sorry that I didn’t answer sooner, I had long day.
Additionaly I think we should make a decision on who to make at Thursday evening at latest. So we still have time to finish the base concept.

5

I do like the idea of the Demon/Channeler concept. I can’t really think of any characters that use a spirit in the same vein as the Bug Hat, and copying Abathur may not be the best call. We could have the demon sort of act like a body guard to the Summoner, being stronger while in proximity to the summoner, being able to provide peel (while the Warlock acts as a glass cannon), and can be summoned back to the warlock at any time, allowing for quick double lane pushing and soak plus a quick escape option. The idea of the duo being able to provide buffs through dealing damage also matches with the playstyle of WC Demonology Warlocks.
However, now that I mention that, having the controllable demon be a multiple choice option (Voidwalker, Succubus, and Felguard was my original Idea) could result in a greatly increasing our workload and some possible balancing issues, so maybe sticking to a more solidly intrinsic duo could play more into our favor.

That being said, I’ve also found the idea of the Mortar Team to be more fun the more I think about. My current ideas (not pre-existing) bank toward a simple and easy to understand pair of playstyles that when put together give a lot of room for clever plays and personality.

So which of all the concepts given do you most gravitate toward? You or I could throw together some rough drafts for characters so we have a better idea of what each other has in mind. Let me know what you think.

6

Possible candidates for demon:
Belial and Kabraxis - Diablo
Old gods and any dreadlord really - WC
Amon (may not be the best candidate) - SC

My idea is that probably at first the demon would only posses others kinda like Aba or Gall (connected to someone else) and later the worshiper would summon the demon himself. Also if we go for Warlock I think there should only be one type of demon.

I don’t prefer any concepts over others. I just think that best vesion would be two heroes who can work independently but are stronger when together. So I would probably remove Archon and Goblin alchemist.

7

I have few ideas for abilities for Naisha, Shandris and The Demon. Sadly I’m runnig out of time today, but I will be back in 17 or so hours from now.
I might be able to steal a quick glance here in the meantime so if you post something I will think about it and respond once I get home.

8

The real issue I have with the riders is less that their mounts wont have abilities or synergies, but that they’ll lack personality. The rider would have a storied character with things to say and interaction with other Heroes, while the mount would be limited to just roars and squawks. And since portraying character personality is just as important as building a faithful moveset, it’s probably best that we have both characters have something to say.

If you have any idea of how the Demon or Channeler might want to work, try writing out a short synopsis of how one of their movesets work, like a list of their basic abilities. It doesn’t have to be final or have damage numbers or cooldowns, just to give me an idea on how I should start building my side and where I should pull my influence from. As an example, here’s how I would describe the Mortar Spotter:

Spotter (name pending) is a ranged Gnome character with low damage, but high utility. His Trait grants him increased vision while in bushes and allows him to see through them for a short time, allow with increased passive speed. This effect can also be granted to the Mortar Carrier while nearby. His base kit includes a flare that provides vision and increases the range of Mortar shots, and splash area slow that also increases damage from Carrier’s abilities, and an undetermined ability that will probably be a support ability, possibly light healing with some CC protection, like a cleaning solution. At least one heroic will allow him to ascend into the air, granting damage immunity and a wide range of vision at the cost of mobility, while also allowing you (and maybe even the Carrier) to rain death and annoyance from on high.
Instead of a normal mount, the Gnome can piggyback on the Dwarf Carrier, gaining some new abilities, like the ability to “Reload” the Carriers basic abilities and fire basic attacks like a player mounted turret.

And on the topic of the two Diablo demons you mentioned, Belial would work better as a stand alone hero, and I only know so much about Kabraxis, so I’d need more information about his channeler.

9

Alright here is how I would imagine our Demon Summoner duo:
Demon: Trait: Possesion - Demon doesn’t have his own body. Instead he posses allied heroes (maybe minions too?). He casts his abilities from the position of his host. Demon can switch his host but there is a cooldown on it. If Demon’s host is killed, Demon is unable to posses anyone else for like 15 seconds.

Summoner: Trait: Willing vessel (Passive) - If Demon posseses Summoner, both gain spell power. Doing damage recharges mana to Demon.
Summoning ritual - Long cooldown. Summoner creates new body for Demon. Demon is in full control of his body. Demon’s body lasts until he runs out of mana (he doesn’t recharge it).

I think that the game lacks evil supports so I would suggest for both of them to have limited healing so when combined they act as a full healer.

So are we down to just Demon+Summoner and Mortar team?

10

Ok here is an early draw of the Dwarf carrier :
(Q) Shrapnel grenade- Long range AoE, has travel time, deals moderate damage in a small area and launches lots of small projectiles in all directions. Each projectile hits one enemy dealing low damage.

Trait: Artillery- Dwarf carrier’s autoattack have long range and deal AoE damage but take time to impact (like catapults or siege giants), Dwarf carrier uses one ammo to fire, ammo takes long time to reload but can be reloaded faster by Goblin spotter.

The Demon (Or an Old God or Titan or Lich or smth):
(Q) Void rupture- AoE, deals moderate dmg in an area and leaves a poison that deals more damage over time to enemies in the area.

(W) Gift for the loyal- Heals target for x amount and recharges x mana.

11

I do like the unique take on the Demon/Summoner relationship, with the demon using a mana pool like a dual purpose Resource bar/ Duration meter. We could use Vidian, the Lord of Envy, as he has a history of possession+deciet and an air of ethereal-ness to him, plus a human disguise that we can conveniently retcon as a host body. Tell me if he works with you and also which side of the two you would prefer to work on.

Side note: On second look, I also think that Narud and Amon could also work, with the summoning Ult creating a Hybrid creature. Could even make both ults be different types, like an Ranged Assassin Destroyer or a Reaver Tank. Like a Abathur Monstrosity that can be controlled directly by Amon.

As for the mortar, its a good start. Add something like a concussive peel option, some Heroic abilities and maybe something that can combine wtih the spotter to fire the gnome to a target location for increased mobility.

I’d look into the Narud idea. He has the most star power of our remaining options and possibly the most material to work with. Addendum; the second player doesn’t have to be Amon, it could be Naruds body and his astral projection, as seen in his mission in Heart of the Swarm.

12

I do like the unique take on the Demon/Summoner relationship, with the demon using a mana pool like a dual purpose Resource bar/ Duration meter. We could use Vidian, the Lord of Envy, as he has a history of possession+deciet and an air of ethereal-ness to him, plus a human disguise that we can conveniently retcon as a host body.

I also like the option of an Old god (to avoid the core replacement everyone suggests) and Twilight cult member (Benedictus, Farthing…)

Side note: On second look, I also think that Narud and Amon could also work, with the summoning Ult creating a Hybrid creature.

Two things: First I tought the summoning would be an active part of trait not ult, to avoid copying Aba.
Second I feel like Narud is known for his shapeshifting and thus would be somewhat diminished as a host only, Amon himself is fine just need to find different host.

As for the mortar, its a good start. Add something like a concussive peel option, some Heroic abilities and maybe something that can combine wtih the spotter to fire the gnome to a target location for increased mobility.

I have a few ideas, but I kinda assumed that the cc would come from the Spotter while Carrier would be vulnerable when left alone. Depends on what ideas you have.

Anyways I already started both The Demon and Carrier so I think I will stick to those. In case you don’t mind.
Last but not least, we really should make a final decision on who we will be making (Mortar team or Demon+Summoner). I’m happy with both of the candidates so if you prefer one (you have more ideas, like the role more whatever) say so.

13

Lets go with Summoner+Demon/Old God/Void Shape (all the same idea, just different details), as it seems to be the most interesting. The Mortar Team is fun, but it seems to simple in comparison.
Tell me which side you would prefer to work on, Summoned or Summoner, and which series you think we should pull from. I wouldn’t pick an Old God servant, because Cho’Gall is already the leader of the Twilight’s Hammer. Though if we can’t agree on anyone from other games we could use Skeram, the Qiraji Prophet.
For Diablo franchise, I do have some experience with it, but not too much. Vidian would probably be our safest bet there. He uses bugs and blood magic and makes people mad at each other and whatnot.
While we could use someone other than Narud, like maybe Ma’Lash, Narud/Duran is one of the few character with enough connection to the Void to actually channel the beings/energies within it into the mortal world. And as far as his shape-shifting goes, I can only think of, like, 4 people he’s been. Two of the them not for very long.

14

Alright, I will do The Demon/Old God/Void Shape if you don’t mind. Do you agree with the idea of them being combined support and assasin/warrior or do you want to have separate roles?

15

I’m split between Diablo or WC demon. If we go for Diablo and support there will be a full demon team. On the other hand Mal’ganis is currently the only demon from WC so he woulf deserve a friend.

16

I think the Demon/God/Flying Spaghetti Monster should act like a support (with maybe a little damage) while in spirit form but becomes a fairly powerful Assassin while given physical form.
Funny thing about that second note. While I do agree that I would like to see more Legion representation, there are no representatives of the Legion that really spend time possessing people outside of Dreadlords and Sargeras, and we already have a representative of both. But while I was thinking about that a sudden bolt of genius hit me.

Talanji and Bwonsamdi

Talanji is a priest, so that already puts her in a support/healer role, along with some additional flare from troll culture. She could collect souls or bone dust with her trait and upon gaining enough she could grant Bwonsamdi a physical form. Bwonsamdi acts more like an indirect support (Abathur or Medivh), doing deathly things like empowering his host or ripping out an enemies soul in order to make them more vulnerable (Look up Illaoi from League of Legends for better reference). A Heroic he could have could be a Dark Deal, where he becomes permanently physical, empowering both himself and Talanji, but at some cost like an increased death timer or enemies getting full hero takedown exp.

17

Interesting, I would not expect Bwonsamdi here, I feel that he deserves his own hero. I also would as a rule of thumb avoid concepts of heroes who have lots of switching abilities (they tend to get overcomplicated really fast).

I have looked a bit more into possible candidates and I find someone that fits almost perfectly IMO. Lucion, son of Mephisto, he basically created his own religion to spread influence of demons to Sanctuary.

Lucion ruled the Triune in the guise of the Primus. As the leader of the Triune, Lucion fought a secretive and subtle war against the Cathedral of Light that would decide which of the two cults would eventually dominate the human race.

On the role topic, I imagine it kinda like a double support or double tank situation. So both would have to cooperate to be effective and thus we would achieve the cohesivness that is usually required in CDC. Does that make any sense? :sweat_smile:

18

No. No it doesn’t.

Bwonsamdi is a manipulator by nature, using others to do his dirty work for him in exchange for power and favors. He rarely appears within the physical world, often taking the form of visions and illusions, but is still powerful enough to pose a real threat in the flesh. As for transitioning from Off-support to Assassin, just make him able to auto attack and give his abilities a bit more strength or efficiency. No need to re-invent the wheel.

As for Lucion, his Primus identity is, like Vidian, not a host but a disguise, and we need to hold that distinct ability for someone who deserves it, like Belial. He also has few to no known abilities in the lore that can’t also be attributed to Mephisto, and he did little more than serve as a puppet ruler for his Father and Uncle’s cult. Plus he was thought out of existence by a fully developed Nephalem, so he more than possibly any other Blizzard Character doesn’t exist in the lore anymore.

Sorry to be so forceful with this, but we’re out of time and I’m out of ideas. I’m going to start researching Priests and Troll culture. Sorry if this decision still doesn’t make sence to you, but we need something .

19

Ok, in that case, how do you want to split it?
Also I’m not fully informed on most recent WoW events but would’nt the troll king Razstakan (at least that’s what I think his name is) be better? He was the one to made the deal right?

20

If you’ve thought of any abilities that could be repurposed for Bwonsamdi, than you can work on him while I work on Talanji. Or vice versa if you think that will work better.

Rastakhan is more of a warrior king, so he might not fit the Support dynamic we’re looking for. Besides, he’s kinda (Spoiler Warning)…

Summary

Dead.

I’m sorry about that, it’s been a busy week and really don’t want to disappoint on this. If you need help on anything I’ll gladly help where I can.