This Weeks Tavern Brawl is Ridiculous


#26

Why are people reviving this obvious troll post?


#27

(post withdrawn by author, will be automatically deleted in 24 hours unless flagged)


#28

Destingater, there is no need to become personal or insulting.

You misunderstand my point. And I’ll grant that using substance abuse to make my point was a bad choice.
The point I am trying to make is: when I make an accusation (no matter what I accuse you of, whether substance abuse, standing on one foot while typing your posts, or having a more than normal amount of screwdrivers in your house), then the burden of proof is on me. It is not on you to prove that you are not guilty of any of those three examples. Especially because the absence of something is impossible to prove, whereas the presence is.

So getting back to my original point: Yes, you absolutely DO have to prove something. You cannot come here and throw around wild accusations and then expect others to prove you are wrong.
Unfortunately you deleted your original post so the only thing left is the part I quoted. But I do remember some very uninformed ghost stories about cookies and how you believe they can be used.

Again: you are the one that will need to prove these accusations.
So far you have only managed to prove that there are some cookies on our computers. Not new to me. In compliance with EU law, Blizzard informed me of how their websites use cookies, and asked for my permission. I could have refused, in which case I would have had to log on every single time I visit the web site. I am lazy, and I know enough about cookies and what they can (and most important, can not) do that I immediately accepted.

If it’s just as simple, then by all means: go ahead. Surprise me. Prove me wrong!

(But please do so without further namecalling)


#30

So my reason of posting such a detailed post was not to offend YOU, or another SINGLE USER.

But actually to protect, many thousands to 100.000’s of players world wide.

Just because ME, and YOU already knew about these cookies.

Does not mean everyone knows about it !

YOU and ME might sadly be just the 5 to 10 % of actual internet / Blizzard Users !


#32

If you have evidence that Blizzard’s websites use cookies in violation of your response to the EU-mandated cookie prompt, then that’s something you should take up with the proper authorities. And if you believe that they are a threat to your security, then you should stop using those websites.

As mentioned, I personally always accept cookies because, after studying what they are and how they can be used, I know that they are not a risk. But I am not prepared to go into further discussion on this here, so if you want to believe that they can be abused I will let you.

I will also not respond to your long rant about other websites and how they deal with cookies. That would be off topic for a discussion on a Hearhtstone forum.

The only thing I will contest is your claim (originally made in a post in this topic that you later deleted, but you later repeated it in another new topic) that these cookies are used as track win/loss statistics and then use that data for match fixing.

First, cookies are browser-related. They can only be created and read by browser applications. Are there ways around this? Probably. But why would any company do this if there are easier ways to achieve the same thing?

Second, as you yourself already say (“Besides that, why if HEarthStone would be a 100 % server sided, and based on statistical saved data on their servers, then why would hearthstone need to install 5 name apropriate cookies that can be directly linked to the Game Hearth Stone itself ?”), tracking wins and losses would be trivially easy for Blizzard on their own servers.

Thirdly, the Hearthstone program has read/write access to its own folder on your system drive (like any other application). I can’t recall the location now but I once used it to find the log where every move made in every game since last restarting Hearthstone is kept (in a rather hard to read way, but still). It also has an options file where things such as screen size and resolution and sound volume are stored.

So if Blizzard wants to track statistical win/loss data, either out of pure interest or to collect data to tune their games, or even, as you allege, to set up some kind of matchfixing, then they can either store that on their servers or store it in the AppData folder they already use. No need to go through all the hoops of working around the standard security related to cookies. No need to do illegal things if what you can do can be done legally.

Oh, and by the way - Blizzard does indeed definitely gather statistical data on their end. And they are pretty open about it. Every time balance changes are announced or even just discussed, the Blizzard people point at their collection of data that shows that certain cards are in almost every deck, other cards are hardly used, some classes have a too high win rate, etc. And then they use that data to decide on cards to be nerfed or buffed.

You do not have to give me any proof of the existence of cookies. I know that Blizzards websites use cookies. I even clicked “I agree” to accept them.
I have no clue how many there are, but I also have no reason to doubt your claims about how many Blizzard uses.

The things you claimed, yet still have not provided a single shred of evidence for are:

  1. Your claim that some or all of these cookies are used from the Blizzard app in order to store statistical game data. If Blizzard wants to store this kind of data, then there are at least two alternate methods that are easier to code and that are completely legal, whereas this usage of cookies would be illegal. Without proof I cannot believe that a big company would knowingly choose a harder and illegal method to do something that can be done legally and easier/cheaper.
  2. Your claim that data gathered by Blizzard (regardless of where and how it is collected and stored) is used for purposes of match-fixing. From where I stand, it appears as if you started with a theory (“I think they are fixing matches”), then went on to gather evidence and interpret everything you found as support for your theory “see they use cookies, I’m sure that’s how they do the match-fixing” … and now the sheer existence of cookies becomes evidence of matchfixing in your mind. But one who is not predetermined to find matchfixing will realize that these cookies can be used for lots of other purposes and that their existence by itself proves nothing.

I’m not responding to the rest of your post because it morphed once more into a generic rant on cookies.
I understand that you don’t like them and think they can do more than they can actually do. Perhaps this link is useful for you: https://www.howtogeek.com/241006/how-to-block-third-party-cookies-in-every-web-browser/. It may be a bit outdated for some web browsers and it focuses on blocking thrid-party cookies only, but many browsers also have an option to block all cookies (usually in the same menu). Perhaps that can give you some ease of mind.


#34

Thanks, Destingater.

Your reply unfortunately once more degrades into a huge rant against cookies in general. I try to limit the discussion to your generic claim earlier in the thread that Blizzard allegedly uses cookies to manipulate win rates. For which you still have not supplied a single bit of evidence beyond “I see cookies so I know that they are used for this purpose”.

Although I try hard to not degenerate this thread into a discussion on cookies in general (this is, after all, a Blizzard forum, not a generic computing forum), I do see some points in your post that I just have to respond to.

Proven by whom? Care to provide links?

If you want to have a discussion, then please don’t call people who disagree with your point of view delusional or other insults. The only effect this type of text has on me is to make me think that you are so set in your opinion that you don’t care to discuss anymore, you just try to convert people to “Your True Belief ™”.

Yes, you do. If you don’t like the cookie usage of a company and that company makes that cookie usage mandatory, then don’t do business with that company.
If I use Google Maps on my phone, I need to give it access to location services. Some people do not want Google to have access to their location. That’s fine. But then you do not get to use Google Maps. Find another competing service, or buy a paper town map.

If a company uses cookies after you told them not to, it’s illegal (in the EU at least). However, it is legal for a company to tell you that you must accept cookies in order to use certain services. Due to how computers (and, especially, internet browsers) work, some services are impossible to deliver without using cookies. So it’s up to you to either accept the cookies or accept that you cannot use that service.

That’s just nonsense.
Cookies are not executable code. They contain information.
The behaviour you describe requires executable code to run. Are you sure you are not confusing cookies with viruses?
I’m pretty sure that it will be possible for someone who is smart enough to find a security weakness in some browsers, exploit that to put fake data in a cookie and then make the processor execute it. However, that will only work until the vendor patches the weakness. And for Blizzard, there is no need at all to do this, after all you have already downloaded and executed their code. They are already able to run code on your system. They don’t need to exploit weaknesses to achieve that.

It is almost impossible to prove the absence of something. It is much easier to prove the existence of something.
Suppose that I claim that unicorns exist. Somewhere, in a very well hidden cave on earth, they exist. And every time you use the word cookie, one of them dies in a horrible way. And then, if you do not believe me, I would challenge you to prove that unicorns do not exist. How would you respond?

My inability to prove that cookies cannot read private data, cannot change win rates, and cannot cause the coffee maker to malfunction, does not prove that you are right. Just as your inability to prove that unicorns do not exist is not proof of my claim that they do.

However, earlier in this topic, you wrote: “it is just as simple to proof these cookies have an behaviour beyond your small understanding simply by reading both HEX and ASC11. Coding.”
To which I responded: “If it’s just as simple, then by all means: go ahead. Surprise me. Prove me wrong!”

I am still waiting for your proof.

There’s a lot more in your post that I could respond to but I’ll hold myself back. We are already too far off-topic for this forum anyway.
The one thing I really hope to get from you is either the proof you promised of your outrageous claim, to show beyond reasonable doubt that Blizzard does indeed use cookies to manipulate win rates; or an official retraction of that claim.


#35

I wonder why you , as a single person would take so much , time, and effort to protect Blizzard as a company.

I know my motivation to the opposite, and that is protection of other random customers and players.
But your motivation to randomly protect a global gaming company makes no official sense at all.
No claims on these two :
I mean you could be a big FAN.
But you could as well be an hired affiliate.

You think they would do the same if someone hacked your account ?
You think they would even apologize to you if your personal information was leaked. ?
You think they care if you get 40 or 60 % double MURLOC cards ?
You think they care who or what you are ?

I mean i don’t know you , completely clueless as to who you are.
But probably i care more about your well-being then a company ever will.

It is disappointing you think the word delusional is used as offensive term.
The word delusional derives to the understanding that , even though the opposite has been proven and confirmed by multiple sources !

You still rather believe your own subjective opinions , then given facts like.

  • 6 Hearthstone cookies.
  • 4 General blizzard cookies.
  • Server statistical Data to see what cards you own and “handing” out a large amount of doubles.
  • Match Fixing.
  • Repeated opponent names !
    ( Like what is the chance if this game is Free-to-Play and has over a 5 million people who play it… ! )
    ( Then what is the chance, you will be purposely matched up against the samer player sometimes 3 to 4 times in a row.)

You me and any person can use a calculator to see that possibility is near to impossible and absolutely illogical.

I don’t have to proof that, a simple 8 year old can proof that by the use of basic mathematics.

Even painting a red dot on the side of a coin , throwing it into the air, while landing on the sides "exactly on the side part where you painted your red dot, is more likely to happen then accidentally being matched against the same opponent 3 to 4 and i have even seen 5 times in a row !

Even 2 times meeting the same opponent in 5 different games is almost a magical occurence by itself !!

I am not going to repeat and defend all th eprior statements i made.
And i am glad you at least do react and take the discussion serious.

But repeating my words, multiple times in the same topic is simply not that usefull.

I think i got my point across anyway.

Even if they manage to downvote it, or circumvent it by creating a new topic.


#37

Because I have a weird tendency to get upset when I see nonsensical claims.

Neither. See above.
And I thought we had agree to stop the personal attacks. Do you see me implying that a competing gaming company pays you to destroy their competition’s credibility?

I never disputed the cookies, since I have zero interest in them.
The rest of your so-called facts are just allegations and claims. Despite multiple requests from my side to provide evidence, you just repeat the same statement and claim that these are facts.
Where is your evidence of match fixing?
Where is your evidence that duplicates are handed out on purpose?

Repeated opponent names? Depending on the time of day and the chosen game mode, very much a possibility. Not all 5 million players are online at the same time. The subset that is online is distributed across four regions. The subset that is online on a server is playing different modes - ranked (wild and standard), casual (wild and standard), arena, solo. And at different levels. The game does not want to match a rank 20 wild player to a rank 3 wild player.
Out of the pool of available players that are at roughly the same rank, that are online at the same time, and that are playing at roughly the same level, most of them will be in a game when you start a game. You know who is not already in game at that time, and probably hitting the button at the same time? Your previous opponent.
So yes, it is very much possible to get the same opponent twice. Or thrice. If those games all had the same winner, then a fourth occurrence is very unlikely (though still possible). But if there were roughly equal losses and wins, then you will still both be at the same level, and hence good matchmaking candidates.
Honestly, I would be far more suspicious of fixed matchmaking if I would never run into the same opponent twice. Because statistically it is bound to happen, unless someone/something actively prevents it.

This sounds very much like your statement that you “can look at a cookie content” to prove whatever you claim - which despite your claim that it is easy, you still have not done yet.
Go ahead. Take out the calculator. Do the math and show your work.
Or don’t, and everyone reading this thread knows that you are just making empty claims without any evidence to back you.

Again: show your work.
Do the math. Show the computation to compute the chance of that coin-flip thing happening. Then also show the computation to compute the chance of meeting the same opponent a few times (don’t forget to explictly identify your starting assumptions). If an 8-year old can do it, then certainly so can you.

Of course you are not. Because you can’t. Because the only thing you do is claim that stuff is easy to prove, yet fail to actually provide that proof.

And I am sorry that you don’t. I was really hoping to finally see the evidence you claim to have, the proofs that you say are easy to provide. And yet the only thing I get is more and more repeated claims with zero evidence.

Who are “they”?
PS: There is no downvote option on this forum. That was on the old forums, but has not carried over to the new forums.

Or because they know that in the absence of any evidence, your accusations are just empty air and not worth their time or attention.

Play that deck at least 50 times, in succession, while running an add-on that tracks and records games to hsreplay.net (unfortunately Blizzard do not record games themselves so you need a third party product for that).
After that, go through those 50 games and count how often you had not drawn a 6+ card in the first 4 to 5 card draws. Post the result, along with a link to your hsreplay.net profile.

Once you do that and post the results, I will respond with a calculation of the chance of that happening.
I am prepared to put in that work. But I do expect you to put in the work first, as so far in this threat I have seen you claim that things are easy to prove yet not prove them, I have seen you demand that I prove things … in short I see you constantly putting the burden of putting in effort in my lap.
Why would I?
However, again: once you do the actual work I requested above, I will do my part. Promised. If only because, once we have actual facts, we can finally have a real discussion.

I don’t. Of course not.
Millions of games are recorded daily by sites such as hsreplay.net. If there were just a shred of truth to your allegations, then the data collected by those sites would prove it.

It doesn’t.


#39

Doing a quick summary over these HearthStone forums, there seem to be alot more people recognizing many of my previous mentioned game behaviour.

Compared to someone like you, that does not see this behaviour.

You seem to suffer off a severe case off blindly trusting human behaviour.

I think we really need to break-up on these forums.

Hey,
It’s not you.
It’s me.

I don’t like it when people simply hug, the fiery devil dragon, just because ‘it’ smiled and handed a free cold glass of water !

Not that i’m jealous.
I don’t have to ;).
If u know what i mean.

But the past and human behaviour, show people like you don’t match with people like me.
They always turn out as a waste of usefull time after a little while.

I’m sorry,
it simply will not work out between us.

I think we have to see other people.


#40

Please point me to those many other posts where people claim that Blizzard uses cookies to manipulate winrate.
(Read my posts in this thread carefully. I never challenged you on your claim that Blizzard adjusts win rates. I challenged you on your claim that they use cookies for that, and that this is easy to prove “simply by reading both HEX and ASC11. Coding”. (And your choice of words, the capitalization of hex, and the misspelling of ASCII all suggest that you are quoting terms you read somewhere without actually knowing what they mean).

So no, sorry. You are actually the only one making that claim.
And despite your constant reiterations that it is easy to prove, you never actually provided that proof.

Outside of the context of cookies … yes. A lot of people post weird conspiracy theories about that / why / how Blizzard manipulates win rates. And always in their disfavor, and in their opponents’ favor.
But if “number of people claiming it” were any significant argument, then the earth would be both spherical and flat; the moonlanding would be real and fake; UFOs exist and do not exist at the same time; and Donald Trump would be both the best and the worst president in history at the same time. I feel a very Schrödinger-like existential crisis coming up!

People claiming something proves nothing. That’s why I see your claim that you can provide proof of what you say cookies do and say “show it”. That’s why I try to provide evidence of any claim I make, and if I ever don’t then please challenge me on it and I will either provide the evidence or retract my claim. And that’s why I said (and will now repeat) that “in the absence of any evidence, your accusations are just empty air and not worth their time or attention”.

Uhhmmm … ooohhh - kaaayyy
(backs down slowly)

I think you are misunderstanding what we are doing here… :wink:


#41

Holy cow…I go away for a bit and this happens.

I had to go back and read my original post just to remember what this was all about.

My original post was a statement that implied better deck/card order was RANDOM.

I never agreed nor said, nor do I agree or say, that it is predetermined by the code put in place by Blizzard. I have no knowledge of that and cannot see a purpose to that, except as a way to get you to spend money on decks.

But, that said, you don’t use the cards you purchase in the weekly tavern brawl, so how does getting you to spend more money on cards affect the brawl?

It can’t, in my view.

Now, IF it were being used as a way to influence players to spend money in the game, then that is their choice.

I won’t and don’t spend money on the game and yet I continue to play as I do find some enjoyment in it.

And if they are not concerned with losing players due to having to pay for a “rigged” game, then there is no purpose to rigging the game.

That’s just my average, non-techie person’s perspective and understanding of things. I try to use logic and common sense when I can.

Frankly, this weeks brawl is interesting but a bit frustrating as the choices are not matched at all.

Heck, I’m still trying to get past the stupid final boss in level 2 of the Dalaran Heist (I’ve used every combo of deck/power/character I can think of).

Anyway, no need to argue about this.


#42

Wow, and I thought my argument with Sardontis went downhill fast


#43

We lost the race Loco. We need to try harder :stuck_out_tongue:


#47

The Catacomb ability is unplayable. Played 5 times and lost all 5 times. It’s slow build up, compared to my opponents able to play minions early on. Aggro was a big issue with summon 1/1 when played, when enemy minion dies, or the Singularity ability build up. The worst part of trying to get the treasure card was to have silenced. So I’m playing at a disadvantage constantly.


#48

Please stop the name-calling, okay?

I wish you good luck finding a girlfriend. But I don’t see how that relates to whether or not I respond to you.

Breaking up implies having a relationship. We don’t.
If you think we are or were ever in a relationship than you must be delusional. I don’t even know who you are or where you live (nor care to know).

As do you.
I’m still enjoying this. Are you? If not, then you better stop.

Please don’t tell my clients. They pay me a huge amount of money per hour worked for stuff that involves precisely that knowledge.

Don’t know. Don’t care.

My company?
Which of them? I own 100% shares of one company and 50% shares of another. Please tell me which of these companies you think has violated GDPR.

If you want to sue me, sue me.
If not, then don’t threaten.

I never played WoW.

That’s not a nickname I have ever used.
Sorry, you were wrong.

Why?


#49

You have a legal case? Please, go ahead. Sue them.

I’ll be sitting here, watching. Pass the popcorn, please.

Oh, and if after these words and these posts you do not file a complaint and sue Blizzard for what you are accusing them of, then everyone reading this topic will instantly be aware that your words are just that: words.

If you want to be believed, then put your money where your mouth is.


#50

Obviously we are not in a relation ship no.
You really took that serious.
Was there not even a single clue coming to your mind that it was written as a synonym for ending this pointless discussion…
I have had my many arguments,
And you had your counter arguments,

Like really, did the light switch not go on ?

Also don’t take when i say your company so literal, you are defending the Blizzard Company is what i meant.
But alot going on in their games is extremely shady.

Yes the games are unique and one of a kind.
But that does not mean, match fixing amongst so many other game behaviour should be tolerated.

It is not really a game, when you get matched up against certain players continually is it.

Again, how if so many millions play this game, then why do always the same couple of names appear, over, and over, and over.

It is almost as with Heroes of The storm where they actually use Artificial Bots, behaving as players, even in VS player online modes, purposely making you lose because, a random player always leaves the match 10 seconds in ?

Random luck ?
Random coincidence ?
Or purposely wasting 20 minutes of playtime slowing game progress down ?

Motivating you to simply by that playable heroe for 5 dollars, because it is almost next to useless to farm them with normal gameplay ?


#51

I need to put money ?
Where the mouth is ?

So what you suggest is that :

  1. First i should be motivated to pay to play a game advertised as free to play.
    Simply so i can get more powerfull cards but still get match fixed to people that spend over a 500 dollar on cards to “maybe” increase the win ratio from 50 to 60 % ?

  2. Then suggest i should shut my mouth for encountering this on purpose game behaviour.
    I may not use words, to showcase a game’s behaviour.
    What is next should everybody that see’s dishonest behaviour just sit in the corner and shush their mouth ?

Must be really awesome an society based on your standards !
Must be a real honest society right ?

  1. And then according to you,
    I should pay once more, extra money to sue them ?

For behaviour almost every single player has at least noticed 10 to 20 times.
Even new players notice it after playing 2 or 3 weeks.

So far for the purpose of democracy.

That is probably how all those rich companies avoid to ever get a fine for dishonest behaviour.

What you are literally saying is that.
If you are rich enough, you get a small chance to sue a gaming company for the purpose of justice ?

And when your poor, justice will be a galaxy far away ?
Right ?

Was that the purpose, of your last post ?


#52

And then you are still wrong.
I am not defending anything. I am combating nonsense.

No.

The purpose was much simpler. You make so many claims in this topic. One after another. And every time you add words to suggest that these are easy to prove. Yet when I, or others, ask you to go ahead and do prove them, you switch topic. You have so far failed to produce a single shred of evidence.

But you still accuse Blizzard of breaking their own terms of service. Of doing unlawful things. And you still claim to have proof.

Here’s the simple truth. If you do actually have proof, then either post it here, or deposit it at a courthouse as you file a complaint, or stop talking about it.
And if you do not have proof, then stop claiming you do.

So the purpose of this was to make it very clear, to everyone reading this (though I doubt there are many left), that unless you show the proof you claim to have either here or in a courthouse, you are exposed as a fraud.

I’m not even asking you to admit you have no proof. I know you won’t.
I am just making very clear to everyone else that you don’t.

And yes, I will retract the above words and apologize after seeing your proof.