[Paladin] (vent thread)

Survivability against DH comes in the form of Bronze Explorer (especially when buffed) Amber Watcher, Libram of Hope (hopefully discounted) and casting Lightforged Blessing on beefy targets. There have been games against DH where I literally only played her to get back Libram of Wisdom, Hand of Adal and Lightforged Blessing. The Twinspell on that card is fantastic.

It doesn’t auto-win against DH, but the survivability is certainly there a lot of the time. Nozari can stave off lethal and leave them out of gas while you still have plenty of resources left.

I don’t run Nozdormu in my list.

2 Likes

Libram of hope gets countered by [ Kayn Sunfury ]
“Lightforged Blessing on beefy targets”
how can u have a board after their [Imprisoned Antaen] into [Priestess of Fury]
not to mention [Glaivebound Adept]. you are denied a board almost every single turn.

yeah survivability means you are playing behind all the time. and that’s not how paladin wins. just delaying the inevitable. atm I’m still at 100% lose rate against Demon Hunters.

This deck still get crushed hard by DH unless you’re Silver or they have the worst draw i’ve ever saw.

I watched Thijs’ Libram Paladin deck perform very well last night against quite a few classes and the odd Demon Hunter.

I’ve been playing most Libram Paladin since the new expansion and find it very disappointing.

Only time I managed to beat demon hunter is when they did not have a good curve. Most time I feel like I struggle to maintain the board early on. When you use Libram spells or spell discount minions, you end up losing tempo and cannot develop the board. On the other hand the deck feels too slow against other control decks like Warlock or priest.

At the moment, I am actually having better success with highlander paladin than different variation of Libram Paladin.

If anything, I believe that aggressive version of paladin deck will probably end up being the most successful archetype of paladin decks. Paladin really lack the tools to make it a control variant at the moment.

Librams really aren’t that bad against DH. Paladin has been given enough Taunts and Heals so that you can live through the aggression if you don’t brick your draws (happens to every deck).

If you’re angling to beat DH, you will have a worse matchup against control, because you have to take out a lot of late game. Yesterday since DH was still broken I ended up taking out all my late game bar Libram of Hope and Liadrin, I even had to take out one copy of Amber Watcher because it came down too late. Today after the nerfs I’ve snuck Tirion back in.

And no, Kayn does not “counter” Libram of Hope. If they can finish you off, yeah they will go through the Taunt, and that is annoying but it’s nothing new (Sap, Poly, Hex etc - removal in general). In fact, Libram of Hope has been really good so far for me - most DHs so far that I have met have not been able to deal with it efficiently, it’s a big body on the board and eats up a lot of the Anteon and Priestess of Fury shots. And since they don’t run any late game bar Anteon and Priestess, you have enough removal in Libram of Justice/Subdue, plus whatever minions you have stuck on the board, to compete.

Usuallg when I end up losing it’s because I didn’t draw any of my discount minions so you couldn’t cheat tempo in the mid game. Honestly the class is fine to play rn.

Personally I have double Bronze Explorer plus double Underlight Angling Rod, which generate a lot of resources in the early~mid game, so you don’t need as much draw. Double Hand of A’dal is nice cycle and before the DH nerfs I also put in Harrison for draw/weapon removal. I mean yeah you won’t cycle as fast as DH, they’ve got 12 draw a game, but it’s still possible to keep up to some extent.

And no, Paladin can win from behind. You can grind DH out of stuff.

1 Like

It’s actually not that bad but I’d only do it if I wanted to have a big body on the board because of Anteon/Priestess. I don’t run him though, but it’s not that bad a pick from Bronze Explorer.

60% winrate against demon hunter.

If you can grind out a Renolock, Classic N’Zoth Reno Mage, Secret Mage and most DH-archetypes with a deck, it’s pretty good.
No joke. Librams are really solid in Wild, too.

1 Like

I’d been trying a Wild Highlander before the patch and it was average. I think a lot of it boiled down to people not expecting it. Not sure there is enough deck consistency to run librams in a Highlander?

Actually, the biggest issue I think the class has now is being unable to deal with ‘ongoing’ threats (DH Priestess as a latest example). Given that the class had things like Cleanse in WoW, it seems weird that the class doesn’t have a silence effect and has to rely on board presence.

In reality, that normally means spending 2 cards for removal (equality + something, subdue + something). It would be nice if Silver Hands were reliable but they never stick nowadays. Perhaps if Silver Hands got rush?

Just spitballing here but the class feels fundamentally underwhelming and non-competitve lately.

1 Like

That’s actually been an ongoing problem for the class and a pet peeve of mine. And why I like Libram of Justice so much. And it baffles me how they decided to give DH 1 mana silence&draw a card.

I did think about that exact buff to the HP, but I think that would break the class completely. Still, I think the latest expansion has done much to make the class a lot better than it has been.

A legendary that gave your dudes Rush for the rest of the game, could break Wild.
Whether it be an odd or even-cost card.
But something along the lines of giving Paladin minions that have immediate board-impact, would probably help Uther the most. And some class-specific silence cards that aren’t utter trash.

1 Like

To be clear it wouldnt be dudes summoned through things like Muster, just through the hero power. I think that would make buffs in Paladin way too powerful though :confused: I thought of the Shaw hero power in Dungeon Run myself.

1 Like

Yup, I threw some Librams into my dragon healadin build and smoked some DH on ladder. They don’t have good spot removal for high health minions or taunts.

Also, Batterhead and the lifesteal spell and or draw spell is hilarious against them.

Paladin really needs some rush minions tho. Then I think I could go the pure paladin build.

Might actually craft lady liadrin.

2 Likes

I’m not sure, you’re still needing 2 mana for the token, then the buff. Might makes buffs viable, but can’t see them being OP. Take Pharoah’s as an example. 8 mana for 5/5 with rush, taunt and divine shield? Or Kings - 6 mana for 5/5 with rush. That only just competes with Faceless 4/4 minion.

Liadrin is absolutely fantastic. I’ve turned entire DH games around just by getting Lightforged Blessing and a single extra Wisdom off of her. Lifesteal is massive in dealing with DH.

Also, Air Raid has never seen this much use form me. That card has been another lifesaver

I think you’re underrating the fact that things that don’t actually eat up cards and are repeatable resources (and is always in your “hand”) are more powerful than actual cards though. Remember Even Paladin? 1 mana for a 1/1 is absolute garbage, but people played Even. Or even Odd Paladin - 2 mana for two 1/1s is garbage as a card. But because it’s a hero power they were broken as hell. Yes you pay a one mana tax but it synergizes a little too well with buffs and would probably be way too strong. A one off 5/5 6 mana Rush is not strong but having the threat of buffing an infinite supply of Rush minions is just dumb.

I think the right way to go about it is to give Paladin some good class Rush minions. Which I think is probably a lore related choice that they havent done that already (afaik in WoW Paladins have problems with mobility), but the alternative imo is to make Paladin cards good enough that they are good even when slow, which is a lot more difficult.

Oh, and yeah, I don’t think you have the luxury of running Highlander with Librams. Way too inconsistent.

2 Likes

How do you play that pure libram paladin? Its utter crap no matter how hard I am trying to think their game plan.

Its ok IF you manage to draw perfectly but its pure trash when you do not. It has no bloody card draw = the most powerful mechanic in HS :smiley:

Am I missing something?

i agree…new paladin cards have no synergy and every reveal for paladin is absurdly boring