I was at very understanding of the nerf back then because I thought the would lower the overall power level of the game.
Well, they keep printing overpowered stuff, so I am inclined to say that a Mana Wyrm is comparatively low power level. So what was the point of the nerf? Because now it just doesn’t see play at all.
I was just passing here to check my goodbye topic but could not stop myself from answer that topic just to say.
Demmands like that turning into reality is part of why I stopping with hearthstone .
Cards that demmand correct timing to use full potential have total right of be powerfull or even snowball the entire match.
More frustrating than being on the opposite side of those cards is play better than the opponent and not win the game because you can’t transform this into a game ending advantage.
The proper use of cards like northshire cleric really creates that scenario. It isn’t “a problem” it is a pillar of competitive gameplay at priest class.
With that said. I believe that 1/3 is a little above what it should be but I think no one that wants a nerf would be satisfied with the Northshire cleric just turning into a 1/2 instead of a cost nerf or HoF.
And cost nerf or HoF is unacceptable in my opinion.
I have discovered the point. I understand that losing is hardly ever fun, but losing in 3 turns because you couldn’t remove a 1-drop that, and here’s the important part, scales in threat as it is defended is not fun. Losing to a 2 drop like that is equally unfun. This is why cards like Mana Wyrm, Undertaker, and to a lesser extent Knife Juggler had to be nerfed. Because they become more dangerous with good, strong Tempo play.
Northshire Cleric is balanced because it does NOT grow in power with good Tempo play, activating it requires you to choose value (keeping a minion alive) over tempo (playing a bigger minion). Playing value with Northshire gives you options to win the game eventually, protecting Mana Wyrm with spells wins the game. You can see the difference in power level between the two effects, right?
Well, it is a different card after all.
I would want to revert the Mana Wyrm nerf independent of Cleric though. And I would argue Cleric can snowball harder.
You think Mana Wyrm would be fair when Mages already do the “Someday I’ll be just like you!” Into fifty one cost spells into refill hand with mana cyclone?
Tunnel Trogg was one of the most hated cards in the game and this would mimic the effect of it all.
Fair cards don’t see play. I think that it wouldn’t be as bad as what we have now for sure.
indeed they have killed Mana Wyrm completely… Bring back to 1, reduce 1 health and its good to go !
And where you will find that many spells if you have Mana wyrm ,sorcerer apprentice and Mana cyclone by turn 2 ?
Also it’s turn 2 so you can put a elemental evocation.
With all of that said the only way of cast multiple spells is get something on the lines of twinspell or more spell generation.
In other words the tempo explosion you imagine in the first turns of the game is unrealistic even if you consider do it only on turn 4. Y
To get it to real world we could just imagine Mana cyclone into elemental evocation with 2 Mana worth of spells and know what?
It can happen but still a tremendous highroll.
In the end of the day the tempo gets better but not a monster when compared to other decks of our actual standard meta.
The only thing behind Mana wyrm nerf is shortsighted players whining about fast decks.
Because they’ve drawn 9-12 cards by then, depending on if they hero powered or not. They have a very good chance of drawing those cards if they’re two of them in the deck.
Northshire cleric is way too strong at the moment with high priest amet in standard reasonablemana nerf will justify that problem, the problem with cleric is card draw simply much stronger than stats upgrade from mana wyrm, the more a person draws the more likely his winning percentages increases compared to just slinging spells with mana wyrm and somewhat this deck is a bit aggressive it helps the player to refill hand easily
Basic math is beyond his ability. Dude is a broken record spouting the rigged games conspiracy. Ignore him.
we need more agressive 1 drops
You mind finding the quote for that? Because i have no idea what you ate talking about. What are you suggesting?
a 2 mana or 1 mana cleric wont make as much a difference since the main purpose of it is to drop when circle of healing is most useful for quick draw.
Mana Wymn on the other hand is insane turn 1 drop. Wymn, coin in a mirror entity. Turn 2 apprentice to some magic trick to some 1 mana spell and all the twin spells to stall the board can make mana wymn deal insane damage on turn 2 onwards.
IT could have been a 1 mana 1/2 and been ok I think. they made it unplayable at 2. Too many 2 drops are better than it even with 2 spells played its just a 2 mana 3/3. Not that awesome for a class card
It still useful to prevent early game forpriest to snow ball, my strategy with priest most of the time against quest shaman is to keep tolvir and cleric next turn after the tolvir being played just drop cleric to heal and snowball the game, nerfing cleric to 2 is not a big deal, they did this to wild growth and hex
The whole argument of it’s not like Mana Wyrm so it shouldn’t be nerfed. It’s a draw engine not a snowball mechanic etc etc etc
That is all bogus rubbish.
The simplest easiest way to look at Cleric
If it’s played on turn 1 it’s a broken card. It has multiple ways of being abused in the following turns as well as snowballing a board state as early as turn 1.
That’s the entire class identity of Priest in a nutshell to create a board and hold it for the game. So how isn’t it a snowball mechanic?
Without War Axe being 2 mana, no one running Frost Bolt and only Quest Druid running Wrath to actually deal with a Turn 1 Cleric. It goes completely un challenged on turn 1
The whole point of this card being powerful is when it’s played on 1
After that it’s used in the way it was intended and no one should have an issue with it and that purely a card draw engine.
Which is why it should get the same treatment as Mana Wyrm and get pushed to 2 mana
It’s not meant to be an opener but Priest has nothing else as well as been given tools to help this opening instead of opening the class up to different things.
So on top of Devine Spirit this card is the main problem in Priest at 1 mana. 2 mana and it fits perfectly into what it’s designed to do and that’s a big pyro cleric heal turn to cycle through your deck
Wanna a descent argument?
It is like Mana wyrm and the results of its nerf was horrendous.
Serious just check how the new mage identity worked out and the final consequences of the process…
I really not believe in team 5 capacity to design anything because they lack a design philosophy.
When you do changes like that you can’t really return because you just destroyed the old identity viability in the process.
So if you want priest to receive a new identity that will be killed only some months later because player whining making the class see no play at all anymore nerf cleric is a good start for that process.
If Cleric is that big of an issue, you have already shown 2 ways to address her, for 2 different classes (there are many more, like the neutral Hooter). If you can tank the damage before Hooter is online, then thats an issue with YOUR deck.
(your) Refusal to include tech cards does not make another card nerf worthy by default. Maybe think outside the box if a single cards is so detrimental to your strategy.
E: Ive said it before. and will say it again… STOP arguing for nerfs/HoF to basic & classic sets, instead argue for the evergreen set to be rotated. Its happening piece-by-piece anyway, so make that your arguing point. It was a mistake for Blizz to state the sets would be evergreen, no doubt, but that is no reason to make them useless when the logical resolution is to admit the mistake and rotate them!
I think your argument of not putting in tech for cleric is completely valid. It is up to the player.
I also agree that the evergreen set needs to be addressed in either 1 massive change or rotating the set in and out to suit design ideas for new sets. That’s the direction I think the game should go.
When it comes to this card specifically…
It’s use in Priest is a draw engine over an opener IMO
but with the cards that Priest has been given. Cleric is still the best opener and definitely has the ability to snowball games plus shut out other classes openers by just playing this card.
Whenever Priest is in a powerful spot in the meta cleric has always been their to support the deck as it’s draw engine. That’s it’s role. I hate it as an opener. Like pretty much any 1/3 1 drop with an effect.