More nerfs are on the way

Multiplayer Discussion
124

You clearly have no argument so you come back with the same moronic rubbish about being ‘a fanboy‘. So let me break it down for you:

Running ‘simulations’ or testing every possible combination of every card would take a very long time. A lot longer than what they can allocate for to have expansions come out every three months.

The team tests the cards (they play them) and know from previous experience (along with the data they have) what to generally avoid. But it is ‘nearly impossible’ to test what a combination of about 810 cards (the last two years of Standard) with their stats would look like. And since Hearthstone cannot use fractions (a card cannot have 2.5 attack or health for eg.), like other games to balance, they have to go with the most ‘educated guess’ they have on how to balance it.

So then the cards of a certain expansion come out, and some ‘creative genius’ in the community (after a few weeks of testing) decides to combine certain cards (old and new) to make a deck. Since he/she wants the most effective deck to win, he/she would use every tool available to do so, and the results are things like ‘N’Zoth Voidlord Warlock’ (back when N’Zoth was still in Standard), where the power level hits the roof.

It is something the team could have not ‘simulated for’, so then they have to weigh their options based on gathering information, watching matches,…etc to know where to effectively nerf, but still make the cards feel powerful (in case of legendaries for eg.) and also relevant (as I mentioned in previous post about how 1 attack or 1 health less can make a big difference).

That. takes. time.

Get it? If you didn’t, I suggest you go play Solitaire. It’s a better card game for you.

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125

“hes not saying what we like so hes a troll!”

lol…said by those who apparently believe they run no simulations BEFORE release or just dont understand what simulations are.

126

no

anyone using words like “fanboy” is a troll and not to be taken seriously

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127

keep making personal attacks im fine with that. it just shows me how right i am about my actual points that you keep avoiding. they run countless simulations and have in-house playtesters working before release and know what will and wont be problematic. release anyway. everyone creates the costly broken decks. nerf said decks by changing only the cheapest cards as to not give out dust. happens every expansion…

but maybe youre right and they dont test a darn thing before release. to be quite honest that actually does sound much more like what this team would do.

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128

Nope. My initial point was that we’re stuck in this seemingly endless cycle of releasing broken cards and then nerfing them after a short amount of time. I used shaman galakrond as the most obvious example since they’re apparently nerfing galakrond decks next week and he’s still arguably the strongest galakrond.

My point is while a lot of people applaud blizzard for their “quicker response” to meta “problem” decks, the downside is that frequent nerfs to cards are detrimental to people who have used dust to craft these decks.

Some of the cards that were released in this xpac were downright silly in terms of power and people knew it before the thing was even released.

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129

amen brother. i just posted the same above you but yours is much better worded. im a jerk.

130

Not sure I like this. Getting a bit nerf happy.

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131

hmm you must be a new player or you would know about the epic and leg nerfs

132

I criticized your using the Quest as an example, not Galakrond. I then provided evidence for why Galakrond The Tempest isn’t problematic in the same class as Corrupt the Waters. The Tempest had too much tempo before the nerf.

This set is powerful. But there was a lot of Kool Aid during pre release about all the 5 Star Dragons and Frizz. I am convinced that unless a Dragon tribal deck becomes meta Kibler’s Dragons Fan Club will continue asking for more nerfs until that’s the case. So if anything, the problem with DoD is there’s not enough defense to support a Dragon deck with this much aggro. Such defense would needed to have come in advance, during SoU.

133

Personally I think this meta is the best it’s been for a long time; all the top decks are “beatable” and There’s more of a spread of decks at the top than in recent years. Not to say it’s perfect or even great but it’s better. That said I’m fine with them balancing a few cards and I don’t know why everyone s*its themselves so much when they do this. The last round of changes didn’t “kill” shaman, it’s just brought it down to the point where others could compete and these changes won’t kill these other decks either, just address some cards which are clearly overpowered ATM.

The only change I really want is to the dragon queen; in particular to the chance to pull legendaries. Adding 0 cost dragons is fine, provided your not putting down an Emiriss and a Ysara, etc. I don’t know why legendaries exist in the RNG/discover pool at all; they were designed to be one per deck for a reason. Why you should be playing 2/3 in a game makes no sense to me and could address allot of the imbalance and hidden power levels of certain cards (for example tortollan defender seemingly always generating 2 sun keepers/Tyrion’s in odd Paladin or Flunky generating 2 extra Armegadillos for control warrior and now the endless supply of dragon queens because every dragon lackey and discover dragon seems to always result in one…)

134

Who would’ve thought Face Hunter, a deck that didn’t run any legendaries (initially before someone decided to run Leeroy), could’ve rampaged everyone the way it did :joy:.

If anything that proves you don’t need very expensive cards to win in this game.

Btw…love Hunter but hate that deck.

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135

Ok devs there are several deckbuilding cards in wild you could buff up from years ago, some of which you deliberately overnerffed and left the classes in shambles for diversity that is.

But, if you HAVE to nerf instead of buffing like any of 100 or so awesome old cards everyone wants to play but cant’ bc you nerfed em so hard / never gave them tlc.

Please look at cards that enable the-most-on-repeat decks.
So…preists res.
Mage’s arcanologist / draw a 0-cost secret / duplicate…6 mana deal 80 to face…
I mean that’s really it, some other aggro decks sure could use a tune-down…IF you actually touch big priest in not-a-barnes way.

Wild is awful.
Aggro? Yea that’s like the most fun in the format its that sad
Priest? Forget about it, anything and everything priest has been tried to dead horse level and is memorized by 7 am its so popular.
Ummm….Reno decks ARE a thing…a boring same-as-the-last-reno thing…a transparent cardback thing…a 1 card a turn thing. Reno decks are not intriguing in the slightest…I mean possibly mage with all that generation / kaz obvi.

Hey devs…if you want reno to be one of the few ways to try and deal with aggro….can’t we have kazakus be all 9?

Xmas wish?
Kazakus is no longer gifted to mage priest warlock…
Wait a minute…
Don’t we see constant mage priest warlock?
I wonder if kaz being offered to just-them has…you know…anything to do with that?

Yea.
It’s like that.
Thanks for buffing some cool wild cards the fans vote on.
Thanks for overnerfing classic build arounds such as Flare, Shiv, Blade Flurry, FWA…bc expansion content pushed them…and once again u side with expansions instead of what worked originally.

While youre nerfing cards devs…
You should show big priest, secret mage, and reno decks some love…bc like…nobody plays those. You NEVER see Mage / Priest / Warlock in wild…its like not a thing right?

Kazakus should be all 9
buff old cards, especially some of the ones you nerfed.
stop printing cards that give big priest secret mage and reno decks more juice…nothing these decks do is fancy, cool, fun, unexpected, or 2-cards a turn (well secret mage 2-cards, but Big Priest / Reno decks are gated to 1 a turn pass…like the worst type of hs gameplay it’s combo-less)

Holla!

136

Yep it is a base design intent of every p2win cardgame to sell OP/broken cards

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137

With a 2 weeks PTR before every new card releases this all would have been avoidable easy…

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138

I’d like you cite data or reasons. Rogue (although HL as well), Warrior, and Zoolock all have better WR data above r5 for their Galak decks last I checked. Not saying Shaman is bad but I don’t see the argument for best either.

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139

Agree that I’d love some PTR system even if it is invite only w/ NDA (no streaming). KoFT Druid and Galak Shaman were both just horrible misses from the balance team imho.

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141

PTR testing is a great idea. But in order for it be effective, the pool of testers has to be large enough to make a difference to have better data compared to what they run internally (strike teams that test the cards). But then you’ll run into a whole lot of NDA situations, and so on. Even if that is not the case and they can do it, this will also mean that there will be more time between expansions (to fix things after the PTR results). You might not get three expansions every year, which in return will have people complaining about the meta being stale.

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142

I doubt it would impact their release schedule, most cards are designed well in advance of release, but thats the problem with PTRs in general. It doesnt matter how good and closely followed your NDA is by the participants, the meta will be pretty much solved before launch. Unless they do a mass nerf prior to launch, which defeats the purpose of a PTR in the first place.

Or do you think those participating wont use the knowledge they gained while testing when a set does launch?

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144

Agreed. I don’t know what solution is. But I do believe there are lots of things Blizzard could do better. People’s complaints (not all of them) are not invalid. There are some ridiculous power plays that need to be nerfed. Or in the case of Priest (Res or Quest), the entire class needs to be re-designed

145

Thats nothing a ptr can solve, it has nothing to do with balance, its just your opinion on the class. I have had more than enough of priests rez shenanigans as well, but came to accept a long time ago that its not going anywhere. I just wish they would introduce an actual graveyard already, but thats opinion as well.