Face, Face, Face a good game we have replaced


#21

Face damage happens in control too genius, how do you think they win? Fatigue?

I never would have guessed that in a game where the object is to reduce the opponents life to zero players would reduce the opponents life during the game.

That’s literally what Tempo is. If I have a Tempo advantage over you, that means you need to make trades, not me, and its often smarter for me to hit you in the face. So I’m going to. This does not mean I’m playing aggro, it does mean I’m recognizing when I should be hitting YOU rather than your board.

For aggro decks, the answer to that is “pretty much always”. You apparently think that any deck whose answer isn’t “only when the board is clear” is aggro, which is false. Midrange answers the question with “when I don’t need to make trades” and control answers it with “when you don’t pose a threat”

Example of when even control ignores your board: you’ve got a minion up, say a 5/5 or so, I have a Zilliax with no divine shield. I have Beryllium Nullifier in hand (pre buff).

I Magnetize my Nullifier to the Zilliax. Now I’ve got this 6/10 Taunt you can’t target. Do you honestly think I’m doing to send it into your 5/5? Unless you’re playing a class that can buff your minion to 10 attack or Hunter (because Deadly Shot) that Mech is going to your face. You can crash into my taunt if you want it gone. If you can’t deal with it and I know you can’t deal with it, I’m not going to deal with it for you by trading unnecessarily. I’m going to hurt you with it.

You need to understand that all decks go face sometimes. Every single one. Even when you have minions sometimes. And that doesn’t make them aggro.


#22

Assuming I have not to base your credibility ? Not a good idea. You know this game is free to play right?

I didn’t say that controls never go face either I say it first priority for aggro always as they are trying to end the fight as quick as they can before they run out of gas at or just after midrange as I said before.

Face, face and little to nothing else is what devolves the game as it is killed them quick with vomit minions and direct damage and win or die quick and rinse and repeat. Playing the game beyond that style is lost on these people. Making this possible harms the game that is trying to show itself to be atleast somewhat strategic.

From a different, but similar angle why this is bad is that these type of face decks are boring to watch for long on streams.


#23

I inferred, based on your statements, that you had never played aggro competitively at a high level. It had nothing to do with credibility, and everything to do with your statements about the archetype.

Yes, aggro decks prioritize damage more than control decks, which practically never hit face if there is a minion to kill instead. But what argument is there for one of those choices being more “strategic” than the other?

As I said, this is wrong. Aggro decks control the board all the time. Just not against every deck. The decision tree for control decks is actually much simpler in this regard (for the first 90% of the game anyway), since theirs is always, “if minion in play, hit that, else hit face”.

Against a great many decks that actually care about their minions surviving (i.e., they are important to the deck’s game plan), aggro decks will very often play for board control. This is especially true against other aggro decks, but it is quite common against many midrange or burst decks. Knowing when to prioritize board control and when to prioritize damage (and which minions are/aren’t important to kill) is an essential skill to piloting an aggro deck well, and it’s something I see players screw up all the time.

I have won many games because my opponent ignored my board when they thought they could race, and I’ve won many games when they tried to control it instead of pushing damage. And I’ve lost many as well due to the same types of decisions on my part.

If the correct play were always to kill the minion instead of pushing damage, the game would be much more boring. But because hitting face is sometimes the correct choice (and sometimes not), the game has a lot more decisions going on. This is much better than the alternative.

The fact is, the vast majority of decks (and every single competitive aggro deck in the last 3 years) have to play dynamically against a variety of opponents.

If an aggro deck is ignoring your minions, then maybe it is because you aren’t presenting any method of punishing them for doing that. And why would you expect them to make the strategically inferior decision?


#24

Again with the assumption (“inferring”) that my minions are being ignored by an aggro deck. It is like you never watch any games but your own and make every decision based on personal bias. You said you watch games over 3 years or more though you seemed to miss quite a few .

I watch streams where face is all that is focused on and that the vast majority of those games that wins the games. Full board clears of the face player is usually the only stabilizing to a point in those games. This is not a silver bullet, however I’m afraid as direct damage matters as well as many face players have realized that spells can directly hit face also after all.

Faster games over more decision making games seem to what Blizzard is seeing is more popular on some fronts as there are still cards being made that reward this play.

Again as stated before many do not enjoy watching the endless face parade on streams and quickly change channels as these games are boring quickly .


#25

Aggro is kind of bad right now. It’s a midrange meta, and Aggro and midrange are very different.

Aggro being defined as trying to burn out your opponents life total as quick as possible.

Midrange being defined as having options for big midgame tempo plays that are hard to deal with based on who they are trying to target.

If you want to make the claim that most decks are aggro decks right now, you’d be wrong.


#26

There is no support for the rhetoric that faster games requires fewer decisions. For aggro decks, the decisions are simply concentrated at the beginning. It’s not like a slow deck has to make many tough decisions in its first 4 turns, but aggro decks do this as a routine.

Honestly, I don’t care about streams. I’d rather play the game myself. And in my experience, I see little to no difference in the amount of tough decisions required to (correctly) pilot most archetypes. There are exceptions, but those are typically reserved only for combo decks, like Miracle Rogue (now Miracle Mage), and Maly Druid last year.

If you are watching streams of good players, you should see a lot of focus on board control.

Yes, in aggro-control matchups this is not true, but those (in many instances) are probably the most boring matchups in HS, since the strategies for either side don’t reward any deviation from a very simple game plan. But even so, there is strategy to baiting/holding removal, and you should be seeing at least some of that.

Now, if I did care about streams, I might point out that the myriad of Control Warrior mirrors in the recent tournament had to be much more of a snooze-fest than anything you are referring to.


#27

Unfortunately for you that is where the money is. And this also where many players find interest in a game by seeing it played.

Baiting a removal would be easier if there wasn’t so much of it but you can only have so many cards in your deck. So you are faced with having too much removal and no way to win the game yourself after.