Can we revert Lotus Agents to original form?


#1

This is specifically for Wild and not for Arena. In case you don’t know, with “hidden changes”, whenever you play Lotus Agents, he doesn’t grant an extra durability for Spectral Cutlass. Normally, he used to grant an extra durability because it’s a tri-class card. Similarly, he doesn’t proc the effects of Underbelly/Vendetta while he is in-hand. It’s baffling to me as to why Lotus Agents doesn’t grant extra durability or proc some abilities while Kabal Courier/Grimestreet Informant does. I believe his effect was changed because of Arena balance reasons. After the Arena rotations, could you Devs kindly revert Lotus Agents back to what he was supposed to? So, I can have fun in Wild again. Or, explain to me as to why Lotus Agents doesn’t grant extra durability or proc some abilities while Kabal Courier/Grimestreet Informant does.


#2

I believe I know why Courier/Informant do. Courier is part of the potion package, which was Priest, Warlock, and Mage. Informant is part of the… Grimy goons, made of the Warrior, Hunter, and Paladin. Because Rogue is in neither of those lists, it treats it as a card from another class. The main reason I think Lotus Agents no longer would trigger, is because it might treat it as all three, at once.


#3

Underbelly and Vendetta check if it’s a Rogue card. In the case of Lotus Agents, the answer is yes. In the case of Kabal Courier and Grimestreet Informant, the answer is no.

Any more questions?


#4

Lotus Agents are within Jade Lotus clan, which consists of Druid-Rogue-Shaman classes. So, your logic was either wrong or lacks a certain point. Because I play another tri-class card that improves my weapon or proc some abilities while Lotus Agents isn’t? That’s what I can’t comprehend.

I have one, SuddenReal, then answer me this: If Lotus Agents card can’t proc/upgrade my weapon, why do Courier/Informant proc/upgrade my weapon? By the book, Lotus Agents should proc the abilities or upgrade my weapon just like Courier/Informant. Or, all of them shouldn’t upgrade at all because of this: Tri-class cards are within Neutral cards section, so any Neutral card I played (mind you, I said any) shouldn’t upgrade the weapon.

I look forward to concrete/logical answer from you or Devs.


#5

Because rogue isn’t in their tri class options.


#6

It is. Lotus Agents card is a tri-class card that consists of Druid-Rogue-Shaman class. So, anytime I play it, it should proc/upgrade my weapon because it should also be considered as Druid-Shaman class beside Rogue, just like other tri-class cards. It’s as if you didn’t play Gadgetzan era or you didn’t notice the hidden change in Wild or Arena, did you?


#7

Listen. Try to accept you might be the one wrong here. “From another class” is interpreted as “not a rogue card”. Tri class cards that are also rogue cards fall into that. Tri class cards that are not 1/3 rogue cards don’t.


#8

I do and I might be unless clarified from Devs but…

Indeed, I agree with you.

There, you either contradict yourself or agree with me: If you say that tri-class cards, which aren’t -by your logic- Rogue cards, then what are they? Neutral cards? Druid-Shaman cards since they are tri-class cards? That’s what I want Devs to answer clearly as to why they choose to change it now.


#9

They are druid, shaman AND rogue cards. Thus it is a rogue card. Thus it is not “not a rogue card” = “from another class”. Thus the effect does not trigger as it is a rogue card (in addition to druid and shaman).


#10

But its effect should trigger since weapon checks that “Hey it’s Druid/Shaman card, so I should upgrade myself”. At least, this is how it worked out before this pesky change. Btw, I understand you clearly, but still, ¯_(ツ)_/¯


#11

From a purely “what’s written on the card” I agree with you. However, there is some leeway in how things are worded in HS. The intention is “A card that isn’t rogue”, but it looks weird to say it that way around.


#12

Sadly, that’s the case from their part I guess. Let’s wait and see an answer from Devs so that it will be crystal clear because I reported this issue in Bug Report section as well.


#13

Because, like I said, Lotus Agent is a Rogue card, and the other two are not. Ask yourself, is it a rogue card? If the answer is yes, there is no proc. The “but it’s also” doesn’t matter.


#14

For me, it still does. I ask myself, “Is it Druid-Shaman card? Yes, it is.”. Thus, it matters to proc, but let’s wait and see an answer from Devs, where I also reported to Bug Section.


#15

Okay. I believe I didn’t explain it before, but, here goes. You can include it in your deck, from rogue class cards. Therefore, agents qualifies as a rogue card. So, even though it may be part of another class, it’s not from another class, it’s from yours.


#16

This debate is going nowhere, since there is no absolute wrong or right.

Cards that belong to the Jade tri-class effectively belong to three classes: Druid, Shaman, and Rogue. So when playing them as Rogue, one can easily defend that they are from the same class (since they are, a.o. Rogue-classed). And one can just as easily defend that they are from another class (since they are, a.o. Druid-classed).

Up to about a month ago, the latter interpretation was used. In other words, Spectral Cutlass (and similar cards) would trigger if a card played belongs to at least one non-Rogue class. This only really affected a few niche decks in Wild, as tri-class cards had rotated to Wild when Spectral Cutlass was released. And when tri-class was still in Standard, there were not enough cards to make a “steal Rogue” archetype viable.

After the last rotation, new Arena rules were released and suddenly Arena players received very easy access to a Spectral Cutlass buff if they had any tri-class cards. Blizzard probably realized that this had never been the intention, just undiscovered until then. In order to retain Arena balance, the “other class” test was then changed from “belongs to at least one non-Rogue class” to “does not belong to any non-Rogue class” - which is the same for single-class cards and for non-Jade tri-class cards, but does change Jade tri-class.

My guess is that this will not be changed back. After all, the whole idea of Spectral Cutlass is to get synergy with cards you steal, not with cards you can put in your deck at the start.


#17

I think I get it clearly now, BigHugger. Thanks a lot, your statement makes perfect sense.