Are players too demanding or are developers under performing? part2

Multiplayer Discussion
1

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/cojxij/its_been_6_years_despite_record_profits_the/ewnqvig/?context=8&depth=9

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/cppsgb/is_the_recent_community_backlash_justified_yes/

I came across some interesting posts on reddit which stirred my thoughts about my previous post.

I want to bring up a discussion with a cool-off mind.

1st: I will try to make sense from my interpretation of what the reply (game dev) may mean.

  • The HS team have a roadmap of developments going forward, however these developments may not be to what the player-base maybe expecting/wanted. (e.g. things such as Dungeon Run, Puzzle Mode, and Dalaran Heist, Auto deck builders, even the mechanics behind Zephyr)
  • Since the adoption of the 3 expansion and new solo adventure mode, development upkeep had also increased (manpower, man-hour, talent requirement, etc) which they only recently is able to find stability internally to maintain the current outlay. (reason of not seeing significant new stuffs such as game mode, etc)

2nd: I will share my view on

  • I understand the challenge the dev team faces to cope with the expectation of the game both internally(investors, design, operations, etc) and externally (players, customers). Most players would not understand that they could be continuously working under sub-par conditions such as under-staff, under-budget, tight schedule, etc
  • I do not understand the “system” where the dev team operates with. The “system” I refer here is they way a company operates. A system of what needs to be done, who needs to do it, when it needs to be done, why it has to be done, how it is to be done, etc. The “system” I observe is a system of “inconsistency” and unprofessionalism.

3rd: Suggestions

  • It is impossible to please everyone. However, it is important to recognize and understand the target audience (customers/player-base) The basic of it usually lies with a working communication. A working communication means something that the player can appreciate and trust, from the words of the company. Once the dev have make a statement, they need to follow through to fulfill it, or otherwise give a prompt reply of the reason why it is not fulfilled and what is to expect going forward.
  • A working system. A working system regulates workers to get the job done in a determined way. If the workers are not regulated by a system, then the quality of work will fluctuate.
  • Players need to control their emotions and provide a clearer picture of their opinions

“If Hearthstone used to be your main game but isn’t anymore, what would get you back?”
Was there anything learnt from it?

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You’re right, it’s impossible to please everyone.

But let’s be real, the game does suffer from a good amount of issues from both a balancing and design standpoint.

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The developers have promised us time and again that they would be more interactive on their official forms. They show up for brief periods of time when the public outrage is at its highest, and tell us they’ll do better. They never follow through and suddenly fall off the face of the planet again for the next 8 or 9 months. The last time we had a scurry of dev posts here was about 4 or 5 months ago, with that same promise. They made about 10-15 posts in a couple weeks time, which is about as many posts as they probably made before that in the forms entire history. They haven’t been heard from since…

I know it’s not game related, but their public relations efforts certainly haven’t won them any favors from me.

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i’m fairly satisfied myself. they have been a lot better with upkeeping ladder. I think the newest expansion has been a lot of fun experimenting with. there’s a few obvious problem areas (Dr Boom in particular) that need to be addressed and i’m pretty sure that will happen after the Grandmasters in Seoul.

things i would like to see happen…

  • cards released between expansions to keep the meta fresh. nothing crazy… maybe a few promo cards or a $5-$10 bundle

a new competitive game mode…

personally - and i realize i am in the extreme minority - but i’d love another way to use all of my wild cards. the current Wild Format is getting a bit too cluttered… there’s almost too many cards now. id love if they broke it up a bit

A LOT of people want Tournament mode… and i think that of all things needs to come together.

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I think the criticism is absolutely justified. Why can’t they implement simple QoL features? Why can’t they fix new cards bug or time zone bug for quests? Why can’t they announce properly if we need an extra slot for quests for events? Why can they not announce things on forums?

All not very difficult things.

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What QOL improvements? I can not think of any. The only I can think of is even more deckslots,even though 18 has been more then enough for me and with the deck codes you don’t need more deck slots either. You can write your deck codes down on a notepad and upload them into the game whenever you want.

The QOL that I would want is stats,tracking of all possible stats but most importantly winrate and rating. An ingame decktracker,things like that.
Maybe blizzard has made a deal with the fansites to give them a share in exchange for them helping to promote the game. The fansites can then do those things as keeping track of your stats and deck performance. I don’t know if this is the case but it could be a reason.
If not then I don’t see a good reason why not to implement this feature,other then that they might be afraid that stats will scare away “bad” players whose stats are not all that great. It could be a hidden option though so it wouldn’t have to be in your sight all the time.

But QOL realy is the least of my gripes when it comes to hearthstone. I have played games with much worse QOL because the game itself was great. QOL is not a problem for hearthstone,at least in my opinion. The game is very user friendly. And if it was it would be very easy to solve,add some code and done. No need to balance or whatever like with designing the cards. I rather blizzard focus on other things then QOL.

(more to come later)

Communication:it annoys me that this is mostly done via reddit and not the official forums. Blizzard no doubt has there reasons and I am not really intested in them tbh. It would be nice if they did communicate more but its not really important to me.
Its just the way it is,its not something that will make you quit a game. In the end for people who play games the gameplay itself is the most important aspect of all. Everything else can be bad,as long as the game is good it will be ok. But if the game is bad,then no matter how good everything else is,it wont have a long life.

Target audience:it would be nice to know what audience blizzard is targeting,mostly for going forward. The game we have in the future depends on the audience that blizzard wants to target because that effects their design of the expansions.
For a while we had quiet complicated decks and gameplay with not to much rnh,which gave me the impression that blizzard was targeting hard core ccg,s enthousiast with decks that reward high skill like quest rogue.
Now the games feel a bit different, feels like blizzard is targeting a younger audience who plays the game more casual. More rng effects that can win you the game out of nowhere (yog) ,more very easy combo sequences that any player can perform and which can easily lead to an unstoppable win against any deck and player,decks like scales paladin.
I don’t know,we can guess about the target audience but I guess in the end it would only give false expectations. Blizzard can change target audience any time they desire for marketing reasons or because they think it will be more profitable. I don’t think about this and only look at the game,as long as its fun its ok no matter what they think to target.

New game modes:Wanting to have all these extra game modes is to demanding from the players. They don’t make blizzard money directly,they have no reason to invest in them. It would also be a fringe feature imo. The game is declining,its natural. Every game grows,stabelizes and eventually declines.
Adding more complicated features like new game modes when the game is already on the decline is not going to change anything and only a small amount of people would enjoy those features,its simply not worth it and imo players are unreasonable here. And when they have something that comes close to an ingame tournament like brawliseum everyone complains lol. It wont be popular,something friends do with eachoter once and then never look at it again.

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There you go. Can’t think of any

I guess so there might be some if we wanted to be fair like offline deck collection? Doesn’t work though for me. A better reconnection experience? They fixed what they broke.

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Blizzard already fired all non-essential personnel. It’s more profitable to wring money out of the audience while adding the minimum amount of content, even if that means the game slowly dies. And then Activision can move on from the withered husk of Blizzard to whatever the new fad is.

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Some QOL improvement people overlooked:

  • Deck auto-complete (based on the official database)
  • Random cardback
  • They are constantly improving the adventures
  • You’re less likely going to face same deck in a row (this is new)

Those are subtle but some are really nice QOL improvement.

As long as there no real profile, no real achievement system, new-game mode… people will always complain I think.

I think people want something to do besides Standard, Wild, Arena and Brawl. Something radically different… 2vs2? A true 2vs1 co-op mode?

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I don’t like approaching this from a “either developers are 100% right or players are 100% right” perspective (aka, the game is either s*** or beyond reproach). It encourages and gives credence a lot of the toxic “you’re an idiot”, “got mine”, “ST*U” responses on internet forums, and does nothing to make games better.

Criticism is inherently subjective. If I say “I like/don’t like this game”, that’s valid criticism. Not terribly useful, but valid, even if literally every other person on the planet likes it.

Should a developer care if somebody has a bad experience with their game? Yes. Should they change their game because of it? That’s not black-and-white, and I don’t like framing it as such.

More importantly, ANY game can be improved, except Tetris. If you silence criticism by saying players are too demanding, then you’re making it more likely that you won’t have a better game with the next update. And even if you really like the game, I think that’s a shame.

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Great post! Don’t forget about Arena rotations, that’s huge!

IMO, the Wild card pool has grown beyond the point where too many medium power level fun cards are rarely playable. Many people would love a new mode that is similar to Arena rotations with limited sets. If I was making it I would rotate one set at a time so that newer players to the format don’t need to get 5 expansions every few months to be competitive on it.

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I used to worry I’d just become bitter and hard to please from too many years gaming and reading forums and the endless complaints. I saw the “can’t please everyone, people will complain about anything” argument a lot on WoW and you see it here too and it has a ring of truth to it. You even see complaints here about free quests giving packs.

That was until I moved to other games. The game I’m currently playing was the first time in years where an expansion had launched and I genuinely felt. “Wow, I really like this game, this is fun and well designed!”. Months later and still felt the same. I had nitpicks, their forums had some complaints, but overall the game was just good and people could admit it was good.

Blizzard games lost that a long time ago for me and I couldn’t be more glad I left them behind. It’s nice feeling that I’m not the problem and I can actually enjoy gaming without feeling frustrated, tilted or disappointment.

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i though it was “same player” not “same deck”

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The two do not contradict one another, I see no issue in his statement.

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Just saying…

Games like eternal have a really low budget and a smaller playerbase and still managed to have things like more modes as soon as Beta ended.
Hs is a 5 year old game with huge budget that cant do that?

Games like LoL always try new things. Sometimes at the start of the season or sometimes with the introduction of a new mode (like teamfight tactics) they release some sort of Beta for the players to try out and as time passes the make it better.
In Hs s example for tournament mode the dev team suggested that they had something but didnt implement it cause they were afraid that it wouldnt fits the playerbase s taste. Why didnt they try something similar to Beta?

Also there are many other games with less budget that have a lot more personell for everything. Blizzard had to fire so many people last year just to add a few more to the development department and still these numbers dont seem to be enough.
So the main problem here is that Blizzard is refusing to give more money for higher quality while at the same time making huge profits. Why should this be acceptable?

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They are two very differently things that can contradict each other.

If your opponent switches decks, you will still not requeue into them (at 50 or wherever it was that they enabled this. Not sure if they did this everywhere).

You can get matched with a different opponent playing the same deck consecutively.

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So the practice of counter queuing at High Legend is now dead. Good Riddance.

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Yes, and it’s especially impossible to please people for an unlimited amount of months, years, and matches.

It’s also difficult to keep the magic alive for players who literally know every little thing about the game.

None of this means any individual’s complaint isn’t valid for them. It probably is. It just means that games are often meant for and are enjoyed most by those who are newer to them, play more casually, and who are not exposed to all the in-depth / “backstage” complaints that come from long experience and exposure to others with axes to grind.

There’s often little overlap between those who post most critically most often on a game’s forum, and players who are never on the forums and just enjoying a few games here and there.

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If something seems simple to you, but isn’t getting done, maybe it’s not so simple. Like me looking at a heart surgeon and just saying “Well why can’t you just… Replace it? QOL doctor!”

Here’s the thing- unless you’re en employee of blizzard, you cant understand their internal corporate systems, heirarchy or culture. You likely can’t understand the complexity of making the technical changes you want. You have Zero working knowledge of the teams financial restraints or targets that place very real limits on what gets worked on and when. So why come here to complain about one or two minor things when you could instead just appreciate and enjoy start actually works and what’s fun?

Something to think about.

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Heart surgery seems simple to you?

As customer I don’t care about implementation difficulty. Only results. Otherwise we get nowhere. If they made sausage code and that’s the reason why should I care. It’s still their responsibility. I don’t think you are claiming any of those features are intrinsically difficult to implement? For example: It’s difficult to make a post here every time an event happens? Or promote news article in the forums? But who am I to say that is simple… .

Since you like to get personal let me respond in kind

You are probably also one of these people who says to a thief who robs you: Oh he must have had a difficult life. Nvm I won’t pursue this matter but be happy that I helped him.

No? Maybe something to think about

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