Archivist Elysiana is nonsense design


#54

I have thought there could be cards designed as deck cleaners ( I understand there are already some that remove or replace cards). They could be spells or minions. The tag line would be something like: “Remove any cards from your deck that did not start there”. And “Remove any cards from your opponents deck that did not start there”. Could also have “Remove any cards from your opponent’s hand that did not start there”. Or “Remove any cards from your opponents deck that did not start there and add them to your deck”. Lots of possibilities…


#55

The devs have been pretty open that they don’t want to implement much in the way of “hate mechanics”, so you’re really unlikely to see affects that amount to “completely ruin your opponent’s entire reason for building their deck the way they did.

They do it with things like Hecklebot who can pull combo pieces, Void Contract that burns decks in half and such, but it’s always got some RNG attached to it so it isn’t just a guaranteed, all-encompassing day-ruiner for your opponent.


#56

Fair enough, people would be pretty mad if they took all that time to fatten their deck and it gets wiped by a single card. I suspect they could add more cards for cleaning your own deck though without hurting too much. Like Void Contract it could have some detriment for cleaning your deck. Just throwing ideas around.


#57

I totally understand. I was pining for Dirty Rat most of last expansion lol


#58

I’m excited to see what the next expansions bring (the good and the bad). Speaking of Hecklebot, it is somewhat satisfying when it pulls something huge from your deck and they have no answer…


#59

It’s equally funny when it pulls a Mountain Giant for me and they immediately concede.

I appreciate that


#60

Except in your example of a Fist Fight both players pass out 1 does nothing but dodge while the other attacks until both collapse from Fatigue. Nobody wins that fight.


#61

Passing out from fatigue is the equivalent of reaching zero health from fatigue damage.

Actual fatigue decks are designed to outlast their opponent against such circumstances, so no thay isn’t what’shallening in my example. The fatigue deck’s entire goal is to be the last man standing.


#62

In Hearthstone terms your cards are your stamina. Removing is like dodging. Fatigue Control with no threats is like tiring yourself out with dodging. Then Fatigue damage is like a truck driving down the road that may or may not hit you first. Yeah the goal of Fatigue control is to outlast and have the last thing standing but there is so much you can do to get value or end the game with a real win condition such as Nomi or Mecha’thun that just removing is not good enough as a win condition hence not a real win condition. Then there stuff like Elysiana and Espionage that add cards to the deck. Just outlasting without being proactive isn’t good enough anymore like it was back during the Justicar Days.


#63

It not being good enough in your opinion doesn’t make it a non-wincon. Pure Control Warrior is the best performing deck for the class right now.

Not Bomb Warrior, not Rush Warrior, not Mecha’thun Warrior, Control/Fatigue Warrior. You know what that deck’s wincon is? Outlasting their opponent. And in many cases, it works. Adding cards to your deck is part of fortifying yourself against fatigue.

Calling that an outdated/subpar approach to winning a match seems kinda odd when it’s currently being proven as an effective strategy, don’t you think?


#64

People are complaining about just that an outdated strategy being outdone by new cards. Just because something was good in the past doesn’t mean that now its just as viable.


#65

I meant that as backup plan - you know you lack some needed or powerful cards in your deck. That your win condition is looking pretty hopeless or you need to push for the win, so you play this in hope you get what you need. Some better strong cards, that would give you chance to fight for the win.

Like you having lets say 8 cards and 2 of these are card draw, 2 low cost minions with little to no impact etc., so you play Elysiana in hope to “reroll” the remaining cards.


#66

Wardrum gets it. People who prefer playing fatigue-oriented control decks do so because they find much greater enjoyment from answering threats than generating threats. The thrill of those types of decks isn’t from throwing everything you’ve got at your opponent to knock them down, it’s to have your opponent throw everything they’ve got at you and still be standing in the end.


#67

That still would make her a “the rest of my deck that I’m going to draw is crappy, so here’s hoping I can make it better with random cards” type of card.

By including her in your deck you are already admitting that your deck has a chance to become absolute garbage.

She’d be the biggest waste of space and a dead card nearly 99% of the time. If she’s not a dead card then it’s because your deck designing abilities are atrocious.

No one would run her if it operated like that. Literally no one.


#68

Here’s my proposed change.

Add this effect, “lose the game in 10 turns”.

Now the control Warrior mirror has a tension about who plays her first, because that person has to actively finish the other one off.


#69

Tell me how many top meta netdecks doesnt have a chance to be a garbage when facing bad matchup or when the rng draw is crap? :wink: :kissing_smiling_eyes:
Im not telling this card would make it better or not. Just curious about your pov regarding this “chance to be a garbage” :slight_smile:


#70

How would you represent that UI wise? A ticking clock with a bomb on it? What would happen if you play another one via Banker? Does it get reset? There’s a lot of questions about interaction there that I think Blizzard wouldn’t even consider it.

I find the bigger problem with the card being the choice. Unlike things like Academic Espionage, the ability to choose what cards you need RIGHT now that COULD delay things even more can be exhausting. Like if brawl shows up again, or Omega Devastator, it’s like just kill me now, I don’t want to have to deal with that yet again. More specifically, it can punish your opponent who might have played well into forcing your removal out and outlasting your hordes, only for it to come back again majorly.

That’s the biggest problem in the card: once the card is played the enemy is now at a significant disadvantage strategy wise. I mean, even cards like EMP Operative now can be godsends, as situational tools now could become major win strategies thanks to now knowing what your opponent has played up to this point, and you most likely knowing what your opponent’s win condition is. The opponent’s strategy can be flipped on its head at that point, and while may be part of the design of the card, iit can be mega frustrating to deal with.


#71

I don’t know. Elysiana is one of the few cards that I’m actually considering to craft out of the set. But I could see them making a slight nerf to it … so I think I’ll wait until after the first balance patch before I make that call.


#72

When they nerf it you’ll get a full dust refund anyway, so have at it.


#73

you made my day :slight_smile:
you made my day :slight_smile: