oh… my bad. I think your suggestion distracted me.
They will always see the best option as the default one, since it is the one they are looking to obtain. If the path is not clear, the easier it will be for them to create their own imaginary path.
For example, many imagine probabilities as something absolute, when it is just a trend.
People always complain that something is buggy or impossible instead of admitting that they are unlucky. In their minds, one in 10 is one after 9.
I hadn’t read it, so I prefer not to comment.
I just looked at it and I think it has a problem (if I understand correctly).
In normal situation, you could find a normal item with the stats you want and then add the tempering. With the new system you propose, that item could have the wrong tempering, so you would be significantly increasing the difficulty of finding a good item.
The difficulty may increase so much that it forces the drop of items to increase in order to maintain a healthy balance, regressing the game to its previous point. I don’t know, we would have to analyze the math.
I was speaking about 3GA items. Which is the max. You can only find MAX 3GA stat items. Which again I still haven’t found a single one and i’m lvl 100 since a while.
Again here too.
There isn’t any item in existence which has more Greater Affixes than 3. Because 3 is the max base affix on an ancestral item, thus only 3 can get a “greater affix roll”
Which is basically the pinacle of items you can find if those affixes are not only GAs, but also the type of affixes you need.
Do you even play the game?
And you see that’s the issue i was talking about all along which you clearly missed or ignored deliberately. That even finding the (as MFPF said
[quote=“MFPF-1376, post:29, topic:165717”]
It’s not a great item, it’s a great potential good item
[/quote] ) pinacle of potential items, it isn’t pure joy, because if you are tempering it and you can’t get the 2 desired bonus affixes on it which you need, a potentially godlike item becomes salvage material. And that should never happen in an ARPG
This has absolutely been my experience this season. Feels truly amazing to finally get the tempers you want, especially if the item has 1-2 GA you want. It wouldn’t feel this way if tempers were unlimited, I would just feel angry and frustrated that I spent so much gold to finally hit the tempers, or perhaps just bored since I know the outcome already, it would just be a question of grinding.
In my system, if you didn’t want the temper with the color of the slot, you could just roll exactly the same way you do now. So it is just adding the ability to guarantee a specific affix when the item rolls with that color in one of its slots. You’d still have to reroll and potentially press your luck to get that affix at a high value, but you could make sure you had the right type of affix by finding an item with the right color slot.
to be fair, throughout all the pieces I’ve tempered, most of the time I land on the stats I needed, it might not be a high roll but usually you would get both tempered stats. I didn’t bother with 2GAs-3GAs pieces tho so it’s usually not as painful to fail on 1 GA equipment.
Right, this is how I feel. And sometimes you don’t hit the perfect tempers but you get something decent that you can work with until you find another item to try again. Hitting a max roll of the stat you wanted on a 2 GA item is just an amazing moment in a way that enchanting into the maxroll stat is not.
I will say that gold being precious and enchanting being both expensive and having some very rare affixes can make it more interesting. So enchanting into a good roll of max life is boring because you are highly likely to get it. But enchanting into a good roll of +core skills is so unlikely that it still feels like a good moment.
The issue with tempering is that there are build-enabling affixes with no substitute so if you don’t hit the good roll you have nothing, rather than just having something you can work with.
Um… they never said it was fun, they said it was rewarding. Huge difference. There’s also people still advocating to keep tempering as is with restrictions and all, as they feel it’s better for the game.
Your initial argument and question are saying two completely different things. Something can be rewarding but not fun, and vice versa. Regardless I’m just here to watch the fun. Also curious if the devs plan to say anything about all the feedback on the system.
You’re so smart that you took me pointing out a failure point of enchanting as why tempering is bad? I don’t care how old you are, you can’t even understand what I wrote.
Let’s make it simple for you, the game needs friction or you’re not playing a game. Perhaps you prefer playing virtual story books but I don’t. I want something to not be easily achieved or else why bother playing.
Do you think people in 1989 were crying that Tetris was too fast as it progressed? No, they wanted to challenge themselves to overcome the game’s system. Hell, Tetris is still played today in the original NES form, that cart was considered unbeatable. But in 2022 and 2023 people are setting records still. They have literal kill screens to stop you from playing but it was one of the biggest games ever. How do you think Tetris would fare if it stayed as simple as level 1 the whole time?
As I’ve said the entire existence of Diablo 4… you all don’t actually want to play a game. You want handouts. With that attitude you should probably just read a book.
The people arguing that it’s “good for the game” and somehow trying to equate grinding time with “goodness” are really the same as Soulbros who fight vehemently against having an easier difficulty available.
They KNOW they can keep playing the way they want, but know that they don’t have the willpower to do so if an easier option exists.
You all can just salvage items that don’t roll usable affixes after the current number of attempts and then go spend 30+ hours trying to find an acceptable replacement for another attempt. Nothing would stop you.
If given the option, I’ll take the one that respects my time a bit more, thank you.
I do understood. And besides your pointless attempts of insults, you are the type of player who could be replaced with a monkey and it would do the same mindless point and click what you do and enjoy it the same way you do.
You have not the slightest clue what makes a good ARPG a good ARPG.
If you have ever played any.
If you want to challenge yourself so badly, go back to school
It’s an oversimplification and the point is clear: I’m just asking if you liked it as much as you thought you would.
No no no no no no no…
The less friction the better.
Friction is what makes you leave, not stay.
A clear example of how friction can be reduced if you dilute the increase in difficulty in +30 levels. Also at that time they didn’t have many options.
No one is asking for a QoL update, even though they say it is. The direct request put forth is to change the system to guarantee success. That’s absolutely not a QoL request by any definition of the word.
But asking for guaranteed success IS asking for a handout.
Wait for it…
There it is.
You tell me to go back to school but your first sentence doesn’t even maintain a single tense.
Grammatical problems aside, you don’t even know what a game is.
That’s why I suggested reading a book. You’ll find that any good book has friction that the main character faces. If there’s no adversity then the story is boring. Jack Reacher, Sherlock Holmes, Joan of Ark, and basically any story you can think of. Adversity to be overcome is fruitful entertainment.
Then we have board games, Monopoly, Twister, Chutes and Ladders, and every other game has challenges you face.
Video games are almost exclusively built upon the concept of overcoming adversity. HALO, World of Warcraft, Metal Gear, Rushin’ Attack, and yes, every single game you’d considered an ARPG.
Every ARPG has a loot grind that doesn’t give you a sure fire way to get your desired results, only slightly excluding Path of Exile but the adversity there is built on a system of currency and system obfuscation. Even everyone’s barely played darling LE doesn’t guarantee you get what you want when you craft. You can absolutely brick items there. You can brick them in PoE too if you run out of currency.
Look at that, the closest competitors both have ways to brick your gear.
Point being, if you have systems with no friction, no adversity, then the game is not a game. It’s not even about RNG, you just can’t make a game if you guarantee success. It’s as simple as that.
Only losers quit.
Did you miss the part about “kill screens”? And the part about people setting records in 2023?
But to your point of reducing friction, Tetris INCREASED friction every level you went up. That’s the opposite of reduce.
And the Diablo 4 gear progression is spread out, that’s why you don’t find GA items at level 1. They’re easing you into the developing system. That way you can make conscious choices about what you temper and what you don’t when you get further in progression. They tell you, well no, they show you that you may not have been as luck as you think. You have been shown that the item drop is not complete and it’s up to you to see how the drop finishes.
That’s the problem, you guys haven’t paid attention to the rules and now you’re confused. You think you’re owed perfection because 3 of 5 results. That’s not how the game works though. The drop isn’t the end, it’s the end when you ran out of tempers.
I like it better then the previous method of having to a find a 3/4 item in the piles of haystacks called loot drops and inventory sorting.
I can easily find a 3/3 item now. I have a higher chance of making it a 4/5 or even a 5/5, then I ever did before. So I actually like the system, and having played the PTR it’s exactly what I was expecting. That being said though, I’d have no issues if they changed it, but I’d have no issues if they kept it the same either.
I understand why people don’t like it, I just don’t share the same sentiment. I get the frustration of attempting to make your own upgrade to your gear, only for it to fail miserably. It just doesn’t bother me nearly as much as those wanting the system to be changed. I continue to use the gear I was using prior, I throw away my failed attempt, and hope for another piece of gear to drop I can upgrade.
My enjoyment of the game isn’t dictated by getting the best of the best optimized gear. Doesn’t invalidate other peoples desire for it, and complaints about the system, just means I have a differing opinion is all.
Oh the answer would be yes then. Apologies. Of course I wasn’t advocating that it’s rewarding’ either, so I guess the question doesn’t particularly apply to me.
But you are decreasing difficulty. At least, if your stance is the same as “temper tries should be unlimited”.
Having unlimited chances to make the item you want is ensuring the very first piece of gear you find is the last piece of gear you need.
Which means getting 2GA is all you need and then you’re basically done. 2GA and enchant your 3rd affix, tempers assured on all of them. Game over. Now casual players max out in 4 hours of actual play. Consistent players max out in 2 hours.
But no, no one is making anything easier with their requests….
I’d be content if tempering gave the option to keep the current temper, like how enchanting lets you not make any changes if you don’t like the “new” rolls.
Attempt cap is fine.
As far as GA goes, it’s not a horrible system overall, I just wish that enchanting a GA kept the GA value, increase the cost to enchant said slots to make it more costly or whatever.
But the amount of 2-3 GA items I’ve had drop with absolutely garbage stat lines is beyond being comical to how unlucky I clearly am.
Tempering is not the end of gear progression, masterworking is. I just hope there can be improvements so that the systems can be more about adding variations to builds than just to add grindy features.
Wouldn’t it be fun to see how builds do in pit maxing attack spead vs maxing lucky hit chance? Improving the systems (or evem reducing the cost) just helps, it will not give us true bis overnight…
I hope they can at least regroup the affixes a bit to make it more about choices vs gambling to get the one desired affix.
