Oh the answer would be yes then. Apologies. Of course I wasn’t advocating that it’s rewarding’ either, so I guess the question doesn’t particularly apply to me.
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But you are decreasing difficulty. At least, if your stance is the same as “temper tries should be unlimited”.
Having unlimited chances to make the item you want is ensuring the very first piece of gear you find is the last piece of gear you need.
Which means getting 2GA is all you need and then you’re basically done. 2GA and enchant your 3rd affix, tempers assured on all of them. Game over. Now casual players max out in 4 hours of actual play. Consistent players max out in 2 hours.
But no, no one is making anything easier with their requests….
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I’d be content if tempering gave the option to keep the current temper, like how enchanting lets you not make any changes if you don’t like the “new” rolls.
Attempt cap is fine.
As far as GA goes, it’s not a horrible system overall, I just wish that enchanting a GA kept the GA value, increase the cost to enchant said slots to make it more costly or whatever.
But the amount of 2-3 GA items I’ve had drop with absolutely garbage stat lines is beyond being comical to how unlucky I clearly am. 
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Tempering is not the end of gear progression, masterworking is. I just hope there can be improvements so that the systems can be more about adding variations to builds than just to add grindy features.
Wouldn’t it be fun to see how builds do in pit maxing attack spead vs maxing lucky hit chance? Improving the systems (or evem reducing the cost) just helps, it will not give us true bis overnight…
I hope they can at least regroup the affixes a bit to make it more about choices vs gambling to get the one desired affix.
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I think I might have stolen your luck. I’ve made 4 Necros over 2 accounts and I’ve gotten 11 3GA items so far that would be great for sorcs but not so useful for my gimmick builds. I guess I could stop trying to be so specific with my builds but meh.
That was my first idea and what I discussed in the PTR, but even at that time I was willing to make it slower in exchange for removing the limit: Please REMOVE the limit on Tempering | (And do it more expensive/time-consuming IF you think it's too easy)
I didn’t want to extend the first post in the thread too much with the ENTIRE story.
Currently I prefer this: The definitive solution for Tempering (and Masterworking) RNG | Add a Slow but Safe option 🐢
If you can keep tempering what is the point? Why not just say you can put whatever you want on the item with no rng?
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This isn’t true at all. Friction is what makes it a game and not a toy. Item drops, levels, monster attacks and HP, limited affix slots, limited aspect slots, limited sockets, limited skill points: all these things are friction and are essential to making the game good. Removing friction makes you leave because without friction there isn’t any puzzle to solve or anything worth doing.
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First of all, I think it’s positive that a game can be treated like a toy. We play for fun (I guess…)
Second, let’s define friction, because it is normally defined as something that generates a negative effect or a worse experience.
Friction it’s like hitting a wall. The fewer walls, the better.
The tretris example is a good example of a very slow learning curve, and therefore feels more like facing small steps on a ladder than facing walls. It has no friction. It’s smooth.
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Respect? Lmao.
You’re voluntarily playing a game. Your time doesn’t mean anything.
It’s quite silly to say really. It’s up to you to decide where you spend your time, make a choice and move along. A game is about curating a play experience to you but here you are making demands they change the experience just for you.
The short answer is you value your time a certain way then spend it accordingly. But it’s absurd to think someone owes you for your time.
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If there was only one game in the world, this would be correct… but there are many, and each one competes for you to spend your time on it. (Not to mention that there are more ways to have fun that aren’t video games.)
And you/we’re not dum (i guess…). You spend your time on what gives you the most “value” in exchange for your time/money. (If going to partying with beer, friends and “friends” were cheaper… no one would be playing video games 
)
If one game/activity respects you and the other doesn’t… well… I think we know what the outcome is.
(Spoiler: Dead Game).
So, your time does mean a lot to developers. Their work depends on it.
One less player is no problem… 10%, 20%, 30% less… it’s different.
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My point is that you are the only one that values your time. If you (any singular person) demands that someone change something to meet their time instead of filling their own time… that’s absurd.
Any consideration on capitalism is moot because the individual has the free will to say no. Like you just pointed out, there’s a lot of options to choose when spending time so isn’t it logical to move on to other options instead of demanding an experience change because you demand it to? I think it’s just plainly ridiculous on the face of things. How self important does a person have to be to demand an entire development team or two change everything just for them?
That’s the point I’m making. You have options, always have. There are more choices of games to play than ever before. There are so many things other than video games to do. If someone demands change because they want some kind of respect then that’s just silly. How about respecting the time and money put in to development and planning just a little? Is that person more important or is their time more valuable than the developers? Is their time more valuable than mine?
Like I said, it’s a self centered argument that only holds water if you’re the most important person in existence. And even then, I’d argue that person is also stupid.
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The key is what you perceive as a value.
“Perceive” means “Perception” and that means “feeling”.
It is not something objective, it is subjective. It’s not something you can “attack” with logic.
And you can’t deny that there are many complaining about Tempering. The perception of it is not good. And that’s a problem.
If someone demands change because he/she/it/* want some kind of respect then that’s just silly (It’s a Karen). YES. BUT If many demands change because they want some kind of respect it’s not silly anymore, It’s a trend, a line, a fact. We are no longer talking about 2 random Karens, we are talking about a community.
The only problem with your logic is the amount of complaining involved. Almost verything else is fine. You are just applying a right thought to the wrong situation.
If there was only one person who felt bad about tempering, and if that person was just me, I would agree with you 100% and I would be playing without complaining… but that’s not the case.
(In fact… I had already given up: I guess Tempering definitely has a limit , I didn’t know there were so many of us until recently. That’s why I started “pushing” again.)
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Even with your edits, this isn’t a serious attempt at a “slow but safe” option. The cost of tempering is a temper reroll. If you don’t have a solution for how to replace that cost with another equally rare cost, then you are just asking for a solution that gives you more power.
Like, here’s a serious attempt: if you have 5 items that all have the same affixes, you can spend all of them to create one item that has unlimited rerolls and the minimum affix rolls among the 5 items supplied.
No it isn’t. Friction is the stuff that resists your progress. It makes it so that you don’t just get what you want instantly and without thought or skill.
Looks like you are supposed to brick,bricked lots trying for different builds.
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I would argue that it doesn’t matter how many people make the request. The reason being, if I’m curating an experience then this is the experience I want you to have. No matter how many request it to change I still have a vision and experience I want you to have. If the trend is that it’s not worthwhile then fine, don’t play my game. But having 500 posts about something and most of those being demands riddled with insults with a non-zero number asking for people to get fired… I wouldn’t change a thing.
I quit my game dev job because I would tell those people to shut up and play something else. To me the logical thing is to go away and maybe then the developer can decide if they need to curate a different experience. Perhaps my background leads me to recall the old adage, too many cooks spoils the broth.
When I was in meeting the biggest part of the job was finding all the things that didn’t work and why they didn’t work. My perspective tended to lean towards “these systems aren’t working together”. In the case of tempering I can’t see it not working with other systems we have, other than there being too many types of systems. But that’s not about limits, to me it’s the systems don’t function similarly enough.
You’ll remember I suggested above that enchanting needed a hard cap. To me it’s the only system that doesn’t have a hard reset. Even master working is designed to treat gear like it’s brand new when you reset. So you could reset your gear dozens of times and not get the first tier increase the same as you got the first time. That’s as hard of a soft reset as I’ve ever seen. So I see their curated experience as not being about finding that one item, or set of items and being done but as a journey to find.
It’s the biggest improvement to gearing in the late stages to date. They’re obviously easy to get into and tempering can be done early enough to teach the player that “this isn’t the end of the search” very early in gameplay. What’s left after the early game is to do the grind to get that perfect set of gear. It’s longevity for the players that want longevity. The easy and casual game is readily available to those who don’t want to put time into the game. 98% of D4 is for the time conscious player. The other 2% represents the beginning of growth for the players that have the time to play and want to put the time in.
That’s why I was so averse to the “respect my time” angle… they already did and now it’s not good enough? Why can’t a group of players that wants to put in the work get that little bit more power? Reward people for effort.
I personally want to put in loads of time trying to make stupid builds work and if it’s as simple as ‘I got everything I need already’ then it’s not very enjoyable to me. I have a second account just because I didn’t want all the renown to carry over and make all the content trivial the moment I create my character. I’m already trying to adjust my play to compensate for the already overwhelming simplification of the game. It cost me $70 to avoid just one part of it. Yet we got to see the game need less effort to retain that power. That’s not quality of life, never has been.
As an aside, I do find it funny that I’m one of the most frequently named “shills” on this forum yet I’ve been actively saying stop playing the game and if it dies it dies. Maybe I should just have a copy paste signature quoting Ivan Drago.
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The edits are just to make it clearer and have more participation.
I quote: “I’m not trying to make it easier or faster”
It is impossible to make it more clear and explicit than that.
That just means, we’re talking about different things.
You speak more from a progress perspective. I don’t have a problem with something taking a long time, I have a problem with that time feeling wrong.
It’s like a road… it can be very long and uphill, but if it’s smooth you’ll enjoy the ride quite a bit. For you the friction is the inclination or the length, for me it is the holes in the road.
Tempering is a short road with a large hole in the middle that makes you start from the beginning. I don’t like that hole. I prefer to take a much longer path without holes.
And what if the experience you have planned is garbage?
You are human, it is impossible for this to be perfect.
You can effectively tell everyone “don’t play my game” but you can’t expect that mentality to lead to success. It is a mentality that is not rooted in reality. It’s a fantasy.
Whether you like it or not, Diablo, Blizzard, and Microsoft have employees to pay. They can’t chase a fantasy.
If they start ignoring their players the same way Blizzard did between 2012 and 2018, they won’t get out of this alive.
And if you don’t like it… just like you say: you should stop playing this game.
It has now become more than clear to me that you are the “Karen” in this situation. You are part of those 2 or 3 randoms who believe that not listening to their players is a good idea. The game will lose absolutely nothing by losing you. This is the correct situation in which to say: don’t play my game.
Don’t play Diablo 4.
Don’t play Blizzard games.
Sorry.
The current tempering system with GA being the desired target, with no method to target farm them, with seasonal play meaning in most cases one character, in a season where loot is the focus, just isn’t working well.
If the Pit had item brackets where 1/2/3 GA items would drop would take the pressure of tempering because we would have a constant flow, plus better gear leads to more GA items leads to higher Pit leads to better gear etc.
But then Blizzard seems fixated with making Helltides the end game.
So you stick to the capitalist fantasy. Not a very good defense of your stance. Especially since they finally did something in support of my stance.
You see, there are 3 categories of players, those who think it’s too easy, those that think it’s too hard, and the largest majority of people that don’t care either way. Your assumption is that everyone agrees with you. That’s the flaw of your argument.
The reality is that far less people care about tempering than you think. Just because every baby in town is crying doesn’t mean they outnumber the adults in the room.
The fact will always be that the whiners will seem like many just because they’re loud.
And of course you resort to calling me a “Karen” simply because you can’t actually debate my statements on your own merit. Your argument is stupid.
The fact remains is that the loud minority wants everything handed to them and won’t shut up until there’s no game left to play.
It doesn’t matter that I had to spend $70 and avoid content in the game just to play without the little baby tears handouts. For crying out loud, all your group does is cry for free stuff without any effort. They cried to make a change that requires not playing the game. Already. They cried to speed up leveling so now the leveling process takes less than 8 hours for a mediocre player.
Now you cry because you actually have to play and aren’t handed certainty when you get your first piece of gear. In a gear hunting game no less.
All because lazy people want to be rewarded. That’s all. Lazy. Your argument has always boiled down to “it’s too tedious to play the game” with every single change. That sounds like insanity, legally documented. A person waving their arms and screaming because they don’t like something they never had to do in the first place.
What a tired argument you make. You say there’s so much a person can do other than play Diablo 4 but go on and on about how it has to value someone’s time and bend at the knee to anyone that complains when they could’ve just done something else in the first place.
Insanity.
And as for “they have people to pay”… D4 didn’t get touched by the layoffs because it was already making plenty of money. And that was long before they made S4 changes.
Edit: And now we have people asking for target farming random drop systems. Again. Ridiculous.
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