Too much RNG with Enchanting/Horadric Cube

PC General Discussion
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Alright, real talk here.

RNG on equipment improving systems sucks; it has always sucked, and I don’t think there’s a single player out there that enjoys dealing with it. It was bad in Diablo 3, and it’s just as bad now in Diablo 4.

There is nothing worse than burning through the majority of your gold through dozens of enchanter rerolls because you want one specific affix, but RNG refuses to show that affix as an option. And now with Lord of Hatred, there’s even more RNG of this nature thanks to the Horadric Cube. Only this is even worse than the enchanter, because even if I pick the focused reroll and use a tuning prism that narrows the potential affix pool down, I can still lose the affixes I want with ZERO guarantee of getting that affix back.

At least with the enchanter I am able to specifically choose the affix I want to replace.

A perfect example is what happened to me today. I got a scythe that had 2/3 of the stats I wanted on it (weapon damage + crit damage multiplier), and it had room for an additional affix. So I ran up to the Horadric Cube and added some intelligence to the weapon since I am playing a Necromancer; that was easy. Now all I had to do was change one of the stats from cold damage multiplier to shadow damage. So I picked the focused reroll and used an offensive tuning crystal, and not only did I not get a shadow damage multiplier, the other two offensive stats got changed to completely different ones, which made the item completely worthless. So an item that was almost perfect turned into salvage trash thanks to RNG.

Now, I thought the lesson on this had been learned with the tempering system. Players hated items getting bricked because they’d use all their temper charges without getting the temper they wanted. Valuable items that had the right affixes could get bricked because RNG determined that the temper wasn’t going to be what the player wanted.

So you (the Diablo devs) listened to the feedback, and you changed it. Fewer rerolls, only one temper per item, but we could specifically pick the temper, and then the only RNG we dealt with was how powerful the effect was. So why did you decide to add more RNG that has an even higher risk of ruining items?

This needs to change.

Remove all RNG from the enchanter and the Horadric Cube. Give players the option to specifically choose what affixes they want and which ones they don’t. Then just like with tempering, leave the value of the affix up to RNG, with the values being improved via dropped items. Enchanting Tomes could improve the affixes the enchanter is able to replace. Horadric relics, when put into the cube, could improve transmutations.

If that means increasing the materials needed, increasing the gold cost for the enchanter or limiting the number of changes that can be made unless I use a scroll of restoration, I’m fine with that. But I’d rather have as much control as possible over which affixes go on my items (and which I replace) rather than have a random number generator do it for me and risk ruining loot that I cleared hard content to obtain.

15 Likes
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Everyone will come in here and tell you they only play for the RNG.

It isn’t an ARPO without all the RNG.

I think that’s the dumbest take ever.

If I want to play a casino game I can find something on my phone.

Progression should mean you are progressing. Not gambling.

10 Likes
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Oh I’m fine with RNG existing in ARPGs for dropped loot. If I want a unique item and it only drops from, say, Andariel, I don’t mind running Andariel for as many times as I’ve got lair keys until I get the item I need.

If I need a set item, I don’t mind running the Undercity with keys that give me set items multiple times if I don’t get the one I want the first time.

I don’t even mind RNG for the items I use as I progress through difficulties or level up. If I need a specific stat, most of the time I can just temper that and keep playing; no issues there at all.

But once I start pushing into higher difficulties where items need to have specific stats to continue progression and I get an item I want/need? That’s where RNG should be removed entirely. Fine-tuning an item should be something that is RNG-free for the most part.

I burnt through all of my gold today, hundreds of millions of it, just trying to get a single affix on a piece of armour, and the enchanter just refused to show me the affix I wanted. I ended up quitting the game in frustration (alt-F4 rage) because of the horadric cube nonsense I shared above.

It’s not fun. Not even remotely. I deal with enough RNG trying to get the majority of affixes I need on items that drop while I play. I don’t want RNG to strip that time spent away because it decided not to give me the affixes I wanted or, worse, take away the affixes I needed for something worse.

4 Likes
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Sadly it will stay this way for seasons.

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I’d rather have the rng injected back in the drops and not in the cube. I’d rather be spam killing demons to spin the slot machine, not standing at a cube. I’d play a merge game on my phone for that.

3 Likes
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I feel you.

I’m there myself in T12 just trying to get stronger.

Feels like Iyour in a whirlpool and sometimes you swirl across something you can grab onto but most of the time you get pulled off and I’m just spinning again, until I get to the hole and go down and feel like taking a break.

That’s not fun. Progression should not be Luck Based.

If super End Game Progression was a more rewarding invenstment, a better design with more meaningful choices instead of just more RNG, people would not burn out.

They’d stay playing longer.

But you could say that for early and mid Progression too.

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Sounds like you’re a real ARPG player.

Kudos to you.

Ground Loot is everything.

2 Likes
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But you have to read this very, very carefully before we continue.

There was a major cost to the contract. You got the right to pick but the cost of picking was very, very high.

What are you willing to give up for the determinism?

If nothing, no deal.

And no, materials wasn’t enough, it was never enough to offer more cost. You need something more.

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Spamming reroll buttons does get old. They need to add more enchant roll outcomes. 2 when something can have like 20 possible rolls? With vast % ranges?

Boring as watching bread mould.

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I’m cool with RNG. Escalating costs at the enchanter though, THAT I’m not happy about.

I’m OK with stuff like Res All being rare on a reroll, but having no cap on those rerolls was imo complete BS on Blizzards end. I now have a hard cap on how much I spend for an enchant. Once I hit 5 mil I’m farming the item again.

2 Likes
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I feel that a lot of aspects of the Cube need to be adjusted before next season.

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I would be willing to pay far more in materials or gold. I’d be willing to level up the enchanter like in Diablo 3, with higher-rank tomes only being found in higher difficulties. I’d be okay with only being able to change the affix on an item a few times with options limited based on what type of affix you’re trying to change (offensive affixes can only be replaced with another offensive affix).

Same with the Horadric Cube. I’d be willing to accept more limitations on the system if it means that I no longer have to deal with RNG taking away affixes I need and replacing them with crap that I don’t.

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I assure you that this isn’t enough. Tempering is cripplingly bad now in three of the six categories due to the change. You’d have to give up more like the inability to get max rolls in some categories for the ability to choose the category and then go through the RNG process to get a max roll. That’s what they did with Masterworking after all.

They will absolutely break the player for this. But I assure you that within 5 seasons you will get your wish. I can’t say what they will charge but it is always far more than people are actually willing to pay.

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Press X to doubt. I find tempering still extremely useful, especially if I am targeting a specific affix that I want on my gear, like Thorns, movement speed or elemental damage.

It’s no different than it was before except that now you only get one option instead of two.

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So you got an item with 2/3 stats you needed. You added int, so the item has 3/4 stats you need.
Why not just reroll the one bad stat using the occultist? Yes it´s expensive but the only way without RNG in this case…you can´t expect to get the right thing when there are 4 offensive stats.

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Just think a moment how crappy that casino.. to use slot machine couple times you need to waist hours on boring grind and loot micromanagement. Its like casino where you need to clean toilets before you allowed to use their slot machine.

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You are wrong. This will stay this way not for seasons but forever. When they change cube mechanic they will introduce exact same casino somewhere else. First time I played this game year ago and we had similar problem with tempering and masterworking. Now both those mechanics are perfect and are actually useful crafting/upgrading mechanics. But as soon as they fixed tempering and masterworking they introduced even worse rng with cube. Right now its just awful. Whole idea of finding rare gear is corrupted. The only way for normal player to get bis gear transmute is to use dozens of ancestral non-ga items in cube until they give you +socket bonus. And this will make any non-ga weapon stronger than perfect 4ga weapon with perfect affixes. Its just a pity. Finding perfect 3-4ga base already very hard. Getting bis transmute on that base is nearly impossible. Chance is like couple %.

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No gold on account of burning the majority of what I had trying to get one stat via the occultist, only for RNG to deny me (I mentioned that in my opening post).

Was it my fault that I burned through all my gold instead of doing the smart thing which would have been to stop and try the loop on another item if I found one? Yes. But the RNG is the real problem here. It’s why players spend millions of gold at the occultist, it’s why players burn through all their materials, and it’s not fun.

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You Know, With how rich the Occultist must be by now, You would think that his shop would be a bit more fancy. Instead of looking like a homeless camp.

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honestly it sounds like your not optimizing the crafting system you can easily get the stat you want in that scenario