The ARPG genre can't stand on itself anymore

[leusebi-1647]

@anon78045278

So… why is this? Why players of ARPG can’t stay in the game for a longer period of time without the gimmicks of “Seasons” or “Leagues” or whatever your prefered game likes to call its seasonal content?

I think you are misunderstanding the steam data. You are looking at concurrent players, not total players. When a league/season/cycle starts or a new significant release comes out, a large portion of the player base is going to log in right away and play for more hours than they usually do, even if it’s on a day they don’t usually play. So if you have a baseline of 5000 concurrent users, but 90% of them are playing for 1-2 hours a session and only 3-4 sessions a week, then you’ve really got about 150,000 continually active players. If they all play 8 hours within the first 2 days of a release, you’ll see peak numbers in the 25k range, but if 80% of them are online for the first 2 hours after the new release, you’ll see 120k during that time.

This is with no one ever really leaving the game for other things, it’s only accounting for people who are actively playing, but suddenly bunch their playtime up at a new release.

[DragonFire-12106]

@Nailclipper-21245

It’s D2 that created the modern aRPG subgenre, not D3.

d1 Did actually, D2 made it a cult hit , but no i didn’t mean D3 created arpg, i mean as the coined term is thrown around many ppl believe that the gr hamster wheel is arpgs, look at the QQing based around it. and so i am saying that is not what arpg means.

I mean a name for this endgame where’s my game nonsense lol becasue for me that is not what arpg means.

The Action simple means Real time combat versus Rpg, TbRPG etc.

[Nailclipper-21245]

D1 coined the modern aRPG term but D2 is the base of what others make their game on (including Torchlight which was created by the Schaefer brothers, the original Diablo devs). That’s why I specifically said D2-like.

Torchlight, Grim Dawn, LE, PoE, D3, D4, Titan Quest, are all based on D2.

[Bodach-1471]

@anon78045278

The game is good but people don’t play it?

ARPG players play seasons

Came from record numbers on launch of its 1.0 version with 250000 players to only 25000 in one month.

ARPG players play seasons

They are now on the launch of a new season, so as expected, doing good numbers but few days ago they were in the realm of only 7000 players.

ARPG players play seasons

We don’t know real numbers of Diablo IV but looking at Steam numbers, today they have half the players they had at the launch on the plataform.

ARPG players play seasons

From above 100000 players to impressive 80 playing right now.

Wolcen sucks

So… why is this? Why players of ARPG can’t stay in the game for a longer period of time without the gimmicks of “Seasons” or “Leagues” or whatever your prefered game likes to call its seasonal content?

Because ARPG players like seasonal resets.

[DragonFire-12106]

Sure there systems, the term arpg has existed since d1 and nox so that is all i meant. lol. Yes i know who created the games. lol.
They didn’t create D4 ? lmao D3 is a meme. Torchlight yes had some modern D2 systems. but there is throwback to D1 3 classes , rouge etc played like diablo unlike d3 lol i wish i had time to remaster those graphics, it would look sick with diablo polish and effects, mods did a great job though.I did play d3 for the lore though and modern combat. was ok for the time, but very gutted. but fun in its own way, graphics was above its time.

[dmkt-1267]

@Bodach-1471

Because ARPG players like seasonal resets.

aRpg players also like patches w/ new things to try, not strictly seasons. They just tend to coincide.

Which do you think would drive more players back to the game?

1. Diablo 3’s 2.7.7 Season 31 announcement
2. Patch 2.7.8 continuing Season 30, with about 800 lines of additional game edits to items, sets, and a new item type to chase.

Surely #2 is confusing and breaks ‘the way’, but when #1 is so lackluster you may as well call it a season reset, it’s an interesting comparison.

The best announcement recipe clearly includes #1 and #2, but I personally believe for longevity a game developer should put all effort into #2 and just reset the season.

[Bolander-1515]

These games you mentioned (diablo-likes) are basically single player games, but with a strong burst of dopamine through items and such. Gameplay wise, it is very simple and Grinding = repetition, this combination will eventually it causes fadigue in most people.

Usually, this genre audience also like other games of the genre itself and others too, and will rope between them.

So yeah, I think this genre follow the trend of most single players game, the burst in the beginning of the season is an effect that is know for sometime and is explored better nowadays, both financially and to content presentation.

So, I don’t think it is a problem, it is how this genre behave. The player base that remains are the real hardcore ones, as in any other games. The peak and decrease curve is the behaviour of a game that have cycles of content introduction, remove this part and you will have a linear base (for some time) and decreasing, as in most games.

Games like fallout are an exception, even though the number is constant but not high, it is unknown if the player base is the same all this time or if it remais as is because of constant sales that may introduce some people to a solid IP. Even the most hyped games of all time like Mario or even GTA (single player) are not able to hold the same number of players from a launch or in an expansion event.

Edit: I forgot to add one thing, ARPG fans will play an insane amount of time when a new content is dropped, can be a good game (like LE) or expansion. So even in LE example, people clocking 200h + really quick after launch, the fadigue effect will happen in most cases no matter what.

[anon78045278]

Its not about the hard numbers.
Its about the movement, the behavior.
The big drop in the numbers its what is important in my argument.
It doesn’t matter if they doing 7000 or 700000.

But I see that some people in the thread already got the idea of what I’m talking about.
I like it.
For example:

@OliveShark-3410

Because all this Diablo like loot based System ARPG lack of content and it rely on repeatly grinding and leveling to sustain the game play. This formula was working in Diablo 2 because leveling was slow and reaching maximum level was a great achievement back then.

@OliveShark-3410

Helldivers and Palworld still remain on top steam chart from release and till now as those game has good replayability content. LE is just capitalized on players D4 players disappointment in Season 3 and hope they can escape the boredom by spending another $35 and found that they are back to the same boredom hole after one month of gameplay

@Blueskies-1583

I will argue that people get bored, sooner or later, doing the same game play loop over and over.

@Bolander-1515

These games you mentioned (diablo-likes) are basically single player games, but with a strong burst of dopamine through items and such. Gameplay wise, it is very simple and Grinding = repetition, this combination will eventually it causes fadigue in most people.

[DragonFire-12106]

Its why i dont understand this infinte loop stuff, give me a quality finished game, and i can play it , replay it and play other games after, come back if i had a great time.
So pretty much same situation as now, but with a finished game lol.

D4 is basically a online mmo- looter, whatever this hybrid genre is, i love D4 but slightly disappointed every time i turn over something in the game and it feels like a unfinished idea, or something. I just hope i still care enough by the time its done or it actually does get done and this doesn’t just become a glorified nothing game. that would sadden me. Looks like they are still trying so, i have hope for the moment.

Should have just been OW like elden ring but a isometric arpg, build the online stuff later. I think that is what brings it down a few pegs for me idk. I cant help imagine ER, while i play 4 and wish it took a few more pages from it, that would be my dream for a ismoetric arpg, but it will never happen lol, the genre has become something else so red lightning and mini constructs all over my screen is quality these days lol, i really hate Zolutn Kulle now him and his constructs can bugger off. I exaggerate but i have gotten tired of that gimmick.

And by ER stuff doesn;t mean slow and one skeleton, it means brining back some of that RPG this genre has lost, Weapons with Elemental damage to find. so imagine you have a night mare with shadow damage you can use it as a barb for tactical advantage by hunting weapons with shadow dmg, things like that, dont have to go as far as applying the magic, tempering could be a gateway to this kind of thing perhaps, but finding that sword that reads like it has great power like on eternal edge, feels either unfinished or missed opportunity, imagine if it did something, glowed red ase you killed and boosted stats, i mean the things you can do are endless.

Found Haunted Crossbow after 6 hours and was disappointed it had no cool skin effects to reflect the weapon, makes no sense to me to leave it like this when it could be something really great. So hopefully this side of the game gets some love soon. Maybe S5 or 6 idk.

[Felipebcarne-1100]

The issue is that ARPG games are repetitive. We are in 2024 and Diablo fans are already 35 to 45 years old, those who grinded a character with 5000 hours in 2002 no longer make them. casual, they enter the game at the beginning of the season and leave. These are games that you who appreciate the changes to the season. Ours is a unique new one, I want to test it. Our passive accuracy has increased, it will be interesting to use a bow this season. A journey There’s a horse in the season that I liked. That’s why the game is forever dead… you go there and play a little, during the seasons you start your journey again and have fun with the new features. I think it’s natural that there’s this drop in players .

[BorgerCrunch-1685]

@anon78045278

Grim Dawn
You can say what you want and sing all your praises to how much Grim Dawn is awesome, but at this very moment, Grim Dawn only has 2000 players inside the game.
The game is good but people don’t play it?

I have nothing but love for Grim Dawn, but I don’t think the game was ever intended to be supported for forever in the way many games are. It always felt like a “one and done” kind of project, even if the developers did put in post-launch updates for the game. Path of Exile and Diablo have completely skewed our expectations for the genre, and that’s why you feel this way.

@anon78045278

• Last Epoch
  Came from record numbers on launch of its 1.0 version with 250000 players to only 25000 in one month.
• Path of Exile
  They are now on the launch of a new season, so as expected, doing good numbers but few days ago they were in the realm of only 7000 players.

This is pretty routine for any ARPG, never mind most live-service games. All live-service games see their concurrent player counts peak at the beginning of a new season and then decrease and plateau. Hardly indicative of the ARPG genre not being able to “stand on itself anymore.”

@anon78045278

Wolcen
From above 100000 players to impressive 80 playing right now.
And I don’t think we can blame this only on a bad launch.
Until 2023 they were releasing big updates to improve the game.

Haven’t played so I can’t say.

That said, your post is silly.

[WrathofSin-11156]

Lost Ark and PoE are usually in the top 10-20 of Steam’s best sellers which goes by total revenue (including microtransactions) so they gotta be doing something right, even if the player count isn’t crazy high. Don’t forget that PoE is over 10 years old!

These are ongoing live service games that rely on continuous revenue and they seem to be doing great. They’re also free to play like most of the best sellers – usually half of the top 10 is F2P. This means microtransactions are out-selling full-priced titles especially on an ongoing basis. A full-priced game like Helldivers 2 to be #1 every week like it has been since launch is very rare.

[Dust-2240]

A lot of these games have their costs frontloaded. You buy em, you play em like any other games and then its over for most of the players. That is why you see a lot of numbers at the release date.

That they let you continue their game is a bonus, and its based on a different concept entirely which u dont seem to grasp at all. Its doesnt need to have stellar levels of players it just need to make more profit then its maintenance costs(that includes if they are willing to update and improve it for free).

Free to play in this genre is not much different except there is often some form of ads involved or other concepts, since they didnt front load their costs.

So claiming they cant stand on their own is kinda strange, it dont see them shutting down.

And if they shutting down cause they suck well thats the same with all games lol

[LilDrip5000-1834]

Welcome to the arpg genre op. Above your head is the sky, below you is what we call earth, this is air youre breathing…gah someone else take it from here lmao. dude thinks hes making revelations by making basic observations and drawing conclusions that make 0 sense

[Myrddin-1520]

This happens with every game, who cares?

[Boon-1664]

@Bodach-1471

ARPG players play seasons

I play aRPGs and I don’t play seasons.

[ChefRef77-1408]

Plenty of games are tanking these days and that is due in large part to questionable choices made when releasing new incomplete games too early at full price. Sadly when it comes to AAA games there are deadlines to be met and shareholders to please.

Smaller studios don’t have this kind of pressure regarding deadlines and can time to get their product straightened out before release such as with LE or with the thousands of bug fixes that came with the early BG3 patches. Games following the seasonal models have hit and miss leagues where everyone plays or almost nobody plays and once the season content is finished players move onto other things. D4 is no different except that so far it’s had more misses than hits. Clearly they aim to change that.

As to other games in the ARPG genre that aren’t specific to this same isometric looter niche part of the genre, there was a big flub and a lot of controversy over DD2 this past week in case you missed it. Another AAA studio pushing out a product for full price with known performance issues and an incomplete game that comes to an abrupt end that also pushes MTX. A week before release this was a GOTY contender, now it joins a long list of developers that have to issue public apologies and scramble for ways to retain its player base rather than growing it.

I’m hoping that moon studios hits it out of the park with their new ARPG. Solid developers with a solid vision. I just hope they get it right out of the gate and that they don’t take too much flack for moving in a more souls like direction.

[Zeezo-11364]

A whole wall of text to say nothing.

Maybe we could stop bringing up the numbers game every chance we get and realize that these games are still going for a reason. Seasons exist. New releases exist. There are plenty of games that garner a ton of players then tapers off when they move on and get bored. I put a crap load of hours into D2 and D3. I still eventually moved onto other games after awhile. There is a lot of context missing when people just bring up straight numbers. They can be a basic guideline to gauge certain things but as I said, context matters.

[Direfell-1893]

@anon78045278

You saying that losing 200000 players in one month is “fine”?

when compared to the drop off in players seen in literally every other game? yes.
Losing 90% of players 1 month after launch is normal. Even Elden Ring was like that.

[Warlyx-21265]

@OliveShark-3410

$35 and found that they are back to the same boredom hole after one month of gameplay

speaking of LE 35$ for a month of fun (and more in the next seasons if that) , is not like game isnt getting update to add more content down the line.

Now look at DIV ppl payed 70$ (double the price of LE ) and left after 1 month too.

Arpg need to innovate , gear grinding is ok , but we gonna need to spice the game somehow , maybe take a look at what ppl like, or add stuff from other genres.