Suggestions for Grenade Rogue

I been running a full grenade flurry build, so far seems viable but am only starting out. Still level 81 and have cleared only pit 12 with it, but so far it’s been fun.

Post patch, the couple grenade damage upgrades are pretty noticeable but still don’t think it’s a complete build. Grenades are too small, Exposure grenades don’t scale, and you have to run CQC to get respectable damage. Hopefully season 5 brings upgrades to paragon boards and other key passives.

Stealth grenades are still by far the hardest hitting ones, so it really didn’t change it much at all. The best way is still to make use of Lethal Dusk Aspect and evade through shadow imbued enemies to trigger stealth. Which is extremely awkward to play.

As another post pointed out, I don’t think Surprise was buffed by 200% which would have put them as a strong contender for the 2H slot. It’s still hard to play this spec without a good multiplier like CQC, I hope No Witnesses eventually gets buffed .

To be fair, yes my build jumped 30 pit tiers with the changes and bosses being nerfed helped its garbage single target damage. Most grenades still miss a boss cause they drop too far behind.

Yeah they buffed all grenades but the stealth ones. It’s just that the stealth one is still stronger.

On 2h the Aspects look like:
Artful = 6576
Surprise = 7218
Opportunist = 13,233
Trickster’s = 6576

But yes the size needs to be scaled upped so you can get overlap on all the grenades. Exposure (Reads 9867-12060 damage) and the Flurry Grenades do pretty small damage compared to the aspects… Could also give Grenades the Trap (By default, no Aspect) and Cutthroat tag to help with Glyph selection.

This is the Grenade build I am going to test. Boosting Smoke Grenade, Dash, and Concealment ranks as much as possible to reduce their cooldowns. You can more or less spam Smoke Grenade on elites/bosses and activate Dash and Concealment at a high rate. Thus, the build just spams grenades, via Smoke Grenade, Dash, Concealment, and Evade Spam. You don’t really need another skill as Heartseeker just exists primarily for activations for things like CQC and Trick of the Trade every 8 seconds.

With Frostbitten, Stun Grenades, and 1 point in Rapid Gambits you don’t really need any “Lucky Hit to CC” affixes so you can pump up Trick Attacks absurd Crit Chance/Damage.

Impetus works great here as you are not using any Core/Ultimate skills.

Potentially fun playstyle but I am very skeptical on the damage. Ima play it in the PTR to at least give some feedback later.

Edit: Just realized I can get Concealment every 6 seconds and don’t need the Iron Aspect’s Vuln proc and changed some things https://d4builds.gg/builds/50d29c81-9cc4-490a-8da3-b90d596f2869/?var=0

Move Retribution to the Artful ring slot since you aren’t using energy.
Then put Sharpshooters on your Gloves. Turns Caltrops into an Agility skill (Procs Tricks of Trade and CQC) and makes the targets Vulnerable. No need for a Core or Basic Skill lol

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While I do have to test it myself, from the video I saw Mired Sharpshooter is kinda bad. It shoots out blades like every few seconds, so the vuln procing isn’t great. But maybe that was because the roll on the aspect was very low. Will have to see for myself. Right now, Concealment with Exploit glyph should be enough to maintain vuln with Puncture being an emergency backup. If this does not end up being the case, I have to go with Mired or Iron Rain aspects.

Artful exists because it boosts stun grenades by 45% which means it boosts Smoke Greanades damage by 45% via Trickster’s aspect. A good chunk of my time will be spent standing right on top of an elite pack and boss and spamming the Smoke Grenade button.

its additive damage so it doesn’t add that much. Sharpshooter has a small delay before it shoots but its 100% vuln on hit (i have 14 atm.)

Frostbitten on the Amulet would give a x37.5% Crit Damage and Concussive on the Boots for x20% to Dazed targets. Which is what Smoke Grenades do.

You’d have to test it but Im fairly positive that the extra 37.5% Multiplier damage is better than the 45% additive to grenades.

The extra skill slot you could use cold imbue to make your Dashes Freeze targets and Stagger bosses quicker or remove the 1 point from the last Puncture and 2 points from the last 2 Concealment passives to put into the flurry teleport or more Darkshroud points. I’m actually curious of the shadow clone’s smoke grenade and caltrops drop the grenades as well.

Honestly, No Witnesses is still pretty garbage. Doesn’t compete with other paragon nodes that give 40% and has a 8 sec duration plus have to stack 350% of additive ult dmg. Plus had to drop a glyph to reach it which means overall a pretty useless change.

Grenades feel pretty dead unless I fully go CQC. I’ll start another rogue to give it a try but still think all grenade aspects need to see substantial buffs, especially the Sab ring.

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Maybe…its something to think about, but I am quickly losing my motiovation after seeing the output. I still need to build up my CQC quite a bit…but even with that I don’t think its gonna get to a level that I would enjoy theorycrafting further. Havn’t quite given up yet though.

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The only combo I havent really gotten to try is the new inner sight aspect for crit damage but have to switch to CQC/Inner Sight grenade build for it. Have yet to see this aspect plus not having temper recipes suck.

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Trying Momentum and honestly it’s feeling stronger than CQC. The Dark Shroud damage per stack is insane. Id say it wont make it live lol. But CQC needs CC Damage. Victimize needs Vuln.

Yea…this PTR is kinda wierd. There are quite a few things that perform way too good and is highly likely to get nerfed and then you have things like Andy and Victmize being bugged so can’t test those builds properly.

This PTR has me worried about class balance more than ever. Tried all my classes and it still feels like Barbarian is leagues ahead in damage and being able to have 300k+ hp. The best build on Rogue likely is the Andy Flurry after the Andy buff but I can’t get behind a basic attack build at all.

I am a bit more optimistic, but with all the bugs its really hard to say. I think Barrage and Pen shot are going to be some dark horses wtih Umbracrux’s totem and abilities that can pull enemies now. Poison Barrage esp is looking nice. I think Marksman and basic builds will be in fairly strong solid spots barring nerfs. I think specialization builds like Grenades and Storms will end up average at best, (found out that Caltrops damage multiplier is current bugged, so still have some hope for Grenades). I think ultimates like Clone, RoA, and Death Trap that arn’t build focused can find some niche uses, like using RoA to maintain Trick of Trade and CQC every 8 seconds while getting aftermath heals, or using Clone to facilitate unstoppable spam or grenade/caltrops.

Basically, I think Rogues will be in a OKAYISH spot, but its hard to tell with the amount of buggs and Exploit Weakness being a stupid node that kills everything that isn’t a boss. Which really leaves ??? for Flurry and Twsiting Blade, at least for me anyway. I personally can’t think of a TB build I would play or have fun playing. Flurry with Andy works but I understand if people arn’t interested in that due to Flurry being less of a focus in that build.

Now that I know the Caltrop Duration I am using on all my weapons is worthless due to caltrop not giving proper damage multiplier, I am more optimistic about what Flurry may be able to do against bosses. I plan to play around with other Flurry builds as that is my favorite Core Skill after Rapid Fire and want to see how far it can go.

I havn’t started working on it yet, but I think a Flurry with Lucion Helm can work. With Umbracux, it is not unrealistic to get at least 9 ranks into Innervation. And with Starless Ring+Advanced Flurry you will have very low resource burn. I just have to figure out how I want the Flurry build to play with those uniques.

Edit: Turning Cold RF Build into a Lucion Cold Flurry build may be what Ima try.

I think ranged builds will still be king on Rogue. Tried various non Puncture Andy builds on a quickly thrown together rogue and poison Barrage performed substantially better than Twisting Blades despite TB having a higher LH. Melee skills need to have way higher base LH since most projectile skills have double cast tempers.

Overall still disappointed where grenade damage is without CQC. Exposure as a key passive just fails to bring any amount of extra damage. It’s just not fun tickling bosses, my Landslide build is much better with a larger radius. Grenades are just too small.

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I was pretty excited for Flurry when I saw the PTR changes, but after playing it now it still suffers from the same issues it has always suffered from, single target.

Momentum and Advance Flurry need tweaks so that EVERYTHING doesn’t remove a stack or all stacks. Imbueing skills, Evading and anything that procs damage removes a stack of Momentum. Worse is they remove all stacks of Advance Flurry.

Advanced Flurry is literally the old way Ring of Starless worked and everyone hated it. Why can’t this work the way Ring of Starless works now? It pretty much shuts out any imbue or combo point builds. Even pure flurry spam builds make it odd to play. Put Elemental Surge on my weapon to trigger Alchemical Advantage (Such and easy way to get Attack Speed/Lucky hit) but it removes all your Flurry Stacks.

Flurry’s damage number range is very wide now as well. With all of the damage stacks and crowd control damage one blade of furry can tick for 500k or 2200k.

Fun tip put 3 points into Unstable Elixirs and Trick Attacks. Then put a Trick Attacks Temper on a Utility Slot and Enshrouding Aspect on something. Now just run into a pack of elites, pop a potion (Can use at full health because of Enshrouding), stuns everything, gives you 18% damage increase from Unstable Elixirs and more importantly it gives you full stacks of Trick Attacks (6 Points in and mine gives 72% crit chance and crit damage). Sadly it does nothing for bosses.

My Attack Power also spikes up to 500k by using the Damage per Dark Shroud temper.

Flurry is for sure hitting harder but its damage is too inconsistent, walled behind crowd control and just not enough for pushing higher pit bosses.

I’ll probably do a dedicated post about Flurry this weekend as there is a ton of stuff to comment on about it.

Flurry and Twisting Blade NEED CORE TEMPERS to increase their damage. Both have projectiles and can easily fit the double cast theme. Or just add more blades for flurry and more return blades for twisting.

Honestly just don’t think Momentum is enough. A 30% dmg multiplier doesn’t cut it now a days compared to what Victimize (once fixed) or Gushing Wounds is giving. Plus heartseeker seems to be really strong with the new 1h unique, those arrows seem to be hitting way harder than before.

I actually love the dash in Flurry for a grenade build but it becomes just a form of movement similar to Shred is currently on Druid.

I actually need it for the energy regen. Running Accelerating Aspect (25%) + Alchemical Advantage (15%) + 1 Combo Point Flurry (15%) + Advantage Elixir (15%). Just tossing an Invigorating Strike to keep up the energy regen, lucky hit and attack speed buff.

Since I’m not tempering for CC Damage or Vulnerable, I’m going for Damage per Dark Shroud. 3600% all damage increase with 5 Shroud. With the Exploit Weakness and Cheap Shot, it was jumping up to 7000+% All Damage during stagger. Vigor aspect provides 35% damage. It’s not anywhere near what you get via CQC but at least it’s something. Momentum should be change so only MARKSMEN skills drop a stack.

(Bug)
Caltrops is removing the Damage bonus from Dark Shroud Stacks. As if caltrops wasn’t already bugged enough lol.
Also if you are at max shrouds and refresh dark shroud it removes the damage as well. These bugs man haha