They still padded it out with bad affixes on top of weights though, so that is no justification for weights.
Let’s face it, there is no real motivation besides the perceived need to have rare affixes. Affixes are not valued because they’re rare, but because they are the theoretical optimal affix for that slot. They know it, and they’re weighting down all the skill ranks just to make people play longer.
But its becoming a bad idea. hence people is getting bored with the repetitiveness.
Me waiting for an apology from all the forum trolls who told me I was 100% dead wrong. Kthnx.
Random and weighting are not incompatible. Weighting is just giving different probability of occurrence to random processes.
Of course, everything in the game is weighted. It wouldn’t work otherwise. The question is whether the weighting is fair or not.
For tempering and masterworking, I think that all options probably have the same weight. Getting 2 successes out of 4 or 5 options with only 7 tries has already a high enough chance of failure. No need for different weights to “brick” items as some call it.
For enchanting, devs have probably been lazy and are just using the same weight table as for drops. It is just as difficult to find items with some affixes as it is to get them from the Occultist. Wonder if it is not preferable to keep farming than wasting our goal trying to enchant. I guess that is what Blizz wants from us.
Why should seasonal matter? The item drops are either designed to be well-paced or they aren’t. Having them be well-paced means that there should be some ability to progress from worse combinations of affixes to ones more tuned to your build.
I actually thought about this for a bit to try to see why Wudi would advocate for rerolling having equal weights and I realized that he is looking at it from the point of view of how it plays when you are hundreds of hours into the season. At that point, when you are trying to push the hardest content, only the most optimized items are worth looking at, and any rerolling you do is going to need a strong roll on a specific affix to be worthwhile. This is not how most of item progression works, so it needs a different solution.
I think if you want to see specific affixes more often, then the best answer is to have the drop level of an item shift the weights away from the more general but less useful affixes and towards the more narrow but more powerful ones. So an item that drops from a level 120 mob is more likely to have the best affixes and an item from a level 200 mob is even more likely to have them. Maybe it even goes beyond fully-equal weights at some level and makes it more likely to see a drop with, say, CDR, Crit Chance, and +3 to skills than to see Max Life, +Main Stat, and +X to a resist.
This is what a D4-friendly form of Magic Find should look like. It isn’t upping the damage or armor or roll ranges the way item power does, just making the good affixes more common and the mediocre or bad ones less common. The drop level of the item would then determine the weights for the rerolls to.
Affixes can fall into 5 buckets:
Hopefully, the generally-useful ones will not be BiS or will be ones that you want a few instances of but not many.
If every affix is equally likely to drop, then either there has to be a lot of clutter where most items contain a random configuration of affixes from the last two categories and are therefore unusable by anyone or almost all affixes have to fall into the 2nd and 3rd categories. If the affixes all fall into the 2nd and 3rd categories, then to have any progression there have to be stronger and weaker generally-applicable affixes. But if all affixes are equally weighted, then you are going to get the strong affixes all the time so the other ones will just recede into category 1 and start looking like clutter.
Having weighted affixes helps to get around this: the affixes in category 3 can have high weights so you are usually getting 1-2 of them, the ones in category 2 and 4 can have lower weights, so you are usually getting 1-2 across both of those categories, and the ones in category 5 can have very low weights so you are occasionally getting 1 of them and very rarely getting more than that. That means finding an item with 3 BiS affixes is very rare, but finding an item with 3 useful affixes is common.
If you made it so that rerolling gave you equal chances at all affixes instead of mirroring the drop chances, that could potentially improve the odds to get rarer affixes (if there were not many affixes in categories 2 and 4), but if it did, that would disrupt the pacing of getting items, so the drop rates and number of affixes would have to be tuned around the idea that it doesn’t matter if you find the rarest affixes as drops, and the dopamine moment moves to clicking on the enchanter instead of getting a drop. Even the additional of drop-only GAs doesn’t fix this because masterworking adds so much more than the GAs anyway.
Affix rolls shouldn’t be rare. They should be rng. 2-3 good affix rolls should be rare due to rng, not weighted rng. Maybe affix rolls could be rare if there was something actually interesting you could roll, but there isn’t.
The only really bad affixes are things like Life per second and Mana on kill, which are bad mainly because they are way undertuned. Each of those has a niche where it would be useful, but they have specifically shied away from allowing those niches to flourish. Would you rather have +4 mana per second or +20 mana per kill? There are plenty of situations where the mana on kill would be better if it was tuned that way. Honestly, it might still be better for speed farming helltides / legion / bloodmaiden even if it was +8.
Life per second and life on hit would be great affixes if they scaled with your health and if there were builds that were strong against one-shots but weak against thousand-cuts / DoT. There are a few tools that help in that regard (Sly Steps, barriers, incentives when you are healthy, things that trigger based on the amount you heal), but there aren’t enough of them, they aren’t strong enough, and it is too easy to solve the thousand-cuts problem right now.
Healing received actually had a moment when blood builds were good, but there’s way too little support for it anywhere else and blood builds are pretty bad now. Could be a great niche stat if they end up creating more of a classic tank role in the game, but I hope they don’t do that.
Impairment reduction is also undertuned. 8%? What if it was 40%? If you could get to some capped value where you reduce CC by 90% or something, then maybe it becomes an alternative to getting high uptime on unstoppable? Being CCed is really not fun, though, so you have to be able to solve it with a very small number of affixes or you are just going to lean on something like Metamorphosis or a class mobility skill. I’d like it if this was still a significant part of the gearing puzzle.
Dodge chance can be a trash stat in a lot of places. There is some support for it as a build type on some classes and it has a place thematically on some uniques, but it’s undertuned and undersupported as a primary affix. Might be better if they just made it stronger and put it only on uniques and tempers.
And that’s it. 6 undertuned affixes, each with a plausible role if they add more support in the future. Resists and armor are too easy to solve but those affixes are good while leveling in WT4. Everything else is specific to some build or other or generally good like life or main stat or crit damage or w/e.
They could improve the system by paring those down to maybe just Life per second (which is fun and can be useful early) and then only bringing the others back if they add significant support for them. On the other hand, leaving these tools out there gives the community a chance to surprise them, so just reducing the weights would be a better option. If they did something like the magic find idea I mentioned in my last post, they would be able to shift from the stats that are more leveling / casual / noob friendly to the ones that are more endgame friendly but the current approach doesn’t allow that.
The same probability for all affixes is called RNG. A weighted system is called a dishonest betting system. I advise you to familiarize yourself with the application and software parts.
And therefore, in the chat at the trash can for season 4, they said that they give less loot but better loot, but it turned out to be the same as it was before. That is, it is “the same 2.0”.
RNG just means random number generator. Whether everything is weighted equally or something are weighted more and some less, you are still generating random numbers.
No one is betting. Many betting systems have weights. For example, it’s far more likely that you will roll a 7 or an 11 than that you will make your point in craps.
I advise you to know something before you act superior.
The question is whether the weighting is fun or not.
Why is this lazy and why should we expect it to be anything other than a match for the drops?
What do you think are random numbers?
For example, I remember that random numbers should not have patterns. If there is a pattern, then these are no longer random numbers.
That is, in this case it is a generator of regular numbers.
Since such systems are used in online casinos and this is considered a scam, since the developer indicates that the numbers are random, but they are natural.
This also applies to super-unique ones, which come across extremely rarely, but the entire game is balanced on their basis, that is, taking into account that each player has 2-4 of them.
You seem to be a white troll.
It’s exactly the same, no matter how much you deny it.
My friend, I studied with professors who would never talk to you, I respect these people, in particular because they taught me more than they could. Therefore, don’t say what you really don’t know. You are not the smartest in the world, but you are the whitest of the Torols.
+1. Period! No further explanations needed. If you have to explain this to someone, by default it means that they will never get it no matter how much you explain it.
These numbers don’t have patterns. Patterns are not the same as weights. A pattern is like, “if I roll a 1 on die 1 I’m more likely to roll a 6 on die 2.” Weights are like “I will roll a 7 6 times out of 36 but will roll an 8 only 5 times out of 36.”
Weighted numbers are only considered scams if the published weights do not match the actual ones. Slot machines don’t even publish the weights because they can be adjusted to create larger or smaller average payouts. They tell you what every combo pays, but not what the odds are of hitting those combos. These are fully-legal, super-popular physical casino slot machines that I’m talking about.
Congratulations? Maybe you should ask them the difference between weighted outcomes and non-random numbers. Or maybe just ask them whether a deck of cards with 2 jokers but 1 of each other card is a fair deck.
Yes, I try to take into account that not everyone has a higher education, and besides, at the department where professors study such issues, among whom there are real doctors of science. Am I really that extraordinary? No, not because I studied with them, but because I was also friends with them, being a simple student. By the way, they almost killed me when they found out that I would not continue studying to become a professor, although I didn’t seem to lose anything from this.
Makes the enchanter not worth bothering. They never learn.
Friend. You are really far from this. Even in any random number generator on a machine there is the possibility of patterns; there are special formulas that search for and exclude patterns. This mechanism is also used in checking calculations to eliminate “sticking” errors (sometimes called the error of solid zeros, if I remember correctly). So why don’t you teach me such basics? I have already pointed out to you that if there is any clear pattern, then this is no longer a random number generator, any professor will confirm my words.
Besides, explain why we need to pile up extra rarity inside an item with an already defined rarity? Because we’re morons? Don’t humiliate your dignity.
No, I will suggest an easier way out. You will go and receive an education not only technical, but also ethical. Then we will talk to you. Agreed?
Could you be more obnoxious?
Non-random numbers are numbers where events that should be independent are not. This allows you to predict the outcomes better than chance. It has nothing to do with whether or not every outcome is equally likely. Adding together the rolls of 2 dice or drawing a card from a standard deck and marking whether or not it is a heart are examples of weighted but perfectly random events (assuming the deck is shuffled and the dice are fair).
The results we are discussing have nothing to do with patterns. We are not talking about patterns, we are talking about weights.
I gave a lengthy explanation about why I think this is a good system a few posts ago: [Season 4] Wow! There's no RNG on rolls. It is weighted! - #65 by leusebi-1647
Enjoy speaking to only people who agree with you and insulting everyone else by assuming you know anything at all about their education level. While you do that, I’ll just be over here understanding the difference between outcomes programmed to have different probabilities and broken random number generation.
i don’t know if tempering and masterworking is weighted, we only have proof about enchanting.
Unless someone have made some testing that im not aware of, all of this “tempering/masterworking is weighted” seems biased because of people frustration.
Of course I can. You just don’t know how much.
No. can not. If this is a random number generator, then there should be an equal probability of getting any. numbers. From a scientific point of view, this is not even discussed. Ethically, this leads to consequences.
What are we talking about besides the pattern that produces some parameters 90% more often? This is the pattern. Weighted or not. A separate question is why do you need to protect such a system? Although the answer here is obvious.
Considering our argument, I can guess what this topic might be about. But you really don’t understand what you are writing about. That’s why I advise you to get an education. As I understand it, they definitely don’t teach this in your schools.
If I were a white knight like you, I would probably do the same, but I am an educated person who at one time was also unselfishly explained to the fundamental principles of this world. That’s why I want to continue this tradition. You probably already realized that the argument is lost. But I advise you to find a professor and make sure of this for sure.