This is a far better description than how I put it. But yes, that’s the way I’m seeing the game now. I could be proven totally wrong with updates and such - but I also won’t be there to see. It’s just not my game.
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That’s fair. I have a feeling when it finishes development if you’re still on these forums you’ll get the full update. Hell, you might get the full development path. I have a sneaking feeling the detractors will gladly let everyone know how it’s going there for no real reason.
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there are already spear nodes and claw nodes etc. on the tree, although those weapons are not in the game yet, they give generic dmg right now but will be changed when the weapons come, the tree size wont change, sure there will be node and cluster adjustments and everything, but the tree overall will stay sameish.
also new classes will not add new starts to the tree, it’ll be like witch/sorceress right now, with both start at the top side of the circle, since both are int based. huntress for example will start at the same point as ranger, as both are dex based.
also i wouldn’t pass the final judgement on the endgame as of now, seeing as it is still in EA/beta and they started work on it like 4months before release, i expect some changes there. since as was said, going from the campaign to the endgame is a stark contrast right now.
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Seems fairly easy to fix. If the cost of moving across the skill web is too large, add some more long distance nodes that makes it cheaper to move from one end to another.
Guess you could also do the Wolcen thing, and allow players to shuffle parts of the web around, to create new connections, closer to eachother.
That said, it seems positive that not everything has the same distance from anything else. Different costs to doing things, as you traverse a web, is part of the strength of a web vs. just having a list of bonuses to choose from. Making it a bit more interesting to create a build.
Well, I was more thinking about the major nodes, like Chaos Inoculation for instance, which is not accessible to half the tree without a crazy trek. The original POE1 tree had unique starts but also an inner “traversing” ring that is missing from POE2. So, and I will take your word for it, while not every class will have an individual start and may share three to a class (?) the lack of that inner ring is kind of a problem even if the tree doesn’t grow much, and that’s presuming that piece is correct, but I can’t see how it wouldn’t grow if the generic elements move into specific ones which just reduces viability for everything else.
It almost, in my opinion, seems worse if the tree stays as it is because that means that 6 more classes will be crammed into an already difficult to traverse tree but I do admit that alleviates the fear that skelebarian cannot exist. It can because it can now, with a lot of work, though I can’t imagine the loss of generic elements along the way would be good for him.
I see what you’re saying here but this brings about balance for viability. If Lightning Pen is further spread than Fire Pen for instance what happens? Or conversion for Ice to Fire is more accessible than Fire to Chaos. Stuff like that I think is going to be difficult to remedy because the web space between elements has to be purposefully unequal to create the variability but that also means that there’s a direct funnel because the path of least resistance is rarely beaten by magnitude functions.
In terms of the endgame, it has loads of issues and everyone has said as much. You may like the game a lot more on release. Or you may not. I’m personally interested in what directions they take the game. I’ll probably keep cycling it in as a seasonal game, like D4, but we will see.
In terms of this quote, I think D4, as it stands today, may have some of the most irrelevant gameplay of all time. Even the enemies of past iterations of the game that did something noteworthy have been radically toned down. They are loot piñatas at this point, and as long as you don’t crank the difficulty slider up to the point you get one shot, the combat is pretty irrelevant.
There are many that don’t have a problem with that but will point to item drop rates or progression systems as the problems of the game. I’m not calling anyone out here, or even saying they’re wrong, it’s just an interesting 500ft observation on gaming these days. Virtually every video game now has some sort of progression system, whereas not that long ago almost nothing did. Without those progression systems, all a game had was its gameplay to keep you hooked. Without relevant gameplay, it’s no wonder the itemization and progression elements get so much attention…it’s the only part of the game that really matters.
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Agreed. Webs got their weaknesses too, pretty much the same ones as the strengths. Mostly a preference thing.
But as for balancing, as long as the numbers are kept reasonable, I am fine with Build A being better than Build B because it is easier to reach (assuming both are well-thought out builds). It just shouldn’t be anywhere near 1000% better, or absurdly 1000000% better as in D3/D4.
So many of the problems in Diablo 4, and many other A-RPGs, always comes back to the insane multiplicative scaling imo 
I agree and do think that POE does have that at least correct in the skill tree: Very few things are multiplicative in nature and almost all are additive meaning that all bonuses are treated effectively the same way. There really isn’t a clear path to superiority through taking multiplicative nodes over additive ones.
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Very much agreed. How many times people made threads here complaining about how trivial the combat feels. Or how D4 is a second monitor game to turn your brain off? It doesn’t need to be this way.
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“I am nearing 200 hours in Path of Exile 2, now with a level 89 ranger and a level 90 Monk that deletes everything onscreen so fast it would make Elon Musk jealous. But the further I get, the more frustrating I fund it that the “ultra-endgame” of Path of Exile 2 seems mainly about wasting your time rather than actually posing a challenge in a meaningful way.”
Forbes.
I’d like to see what that person has to say about D4… 
Streamers will be back to D4 when the “Greater Pit” leaderboard endgame content is out. For now Raxx, Wudijo and Rob are making more cash with PoE2, but to be fair they have complained about no leaderboards or purpose in D4 endgame for awhile.
Obviously leaderboards equivalent to D3 greater rifts will solve that issue, not the challenge rift version no one wanted with the gauntlet
D4 being really bad should not be an excuse for PoE2 to also be bad.
It is pathetic when these games revert to D3/PoE1 endgame screen-clearing.
Why so much fixation on the leaderboard?
This is a game or a competition?
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Not in D4 apperantly. But yeah competeing on a ladderboard is a thing since D2.
If that is from Forbes, it’s probably Paul Tassi, so it shouldn’t be too hard to see if he has something on Forbes or on Xwitter about D4. I’m pretty sure he would.
And i hope it stays that way.
For me, leaderboards don’t mean nothing. 0. Nada.
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You and me also, but there many, many, many more people who cares and they should also matter.
You can handle it the Lost Ark way with Tripods. Every single Skill you can Upgrade and there are 3 levels to each Skill. The first two levels have 3 options to choose from and the last level has 2 options to choose from.
Every single option fundamentally changes how the Skill works. There are no random drops, it is solely based on progression and point investment.
In addition to Tripods you have Glyphs that can be Assigned to every Skill.
You have a Gem System that is separate from gear you can modify the effectiveness of Skills and that get upgraded.
You have a Card System that effectively creates Runewords with the Active System and collections and upgrades that raise Passive Bonuses.
The framework for LA is superior to every single game, too bad it is a Gatcha Korean MMO, it was plagued by Bots, and they leaned way too hard into Daily grinds and Legion Raids initially.
I would argue the only thing lacking was the Itemization and upgrading system in LA was garbage. Grim Dawn is the superior of the games for this portion.
The problem with free to play RPGs and MMORPGs is that they continually add new and expanded power creep systems onto their games to try and entice long time players to stay, until they either get reworked repeatedly or collapse under their own weight.
I’m not sure if you were suggesting change or addition, but frankly I’d hate to see too many more systems layered onto D4, it just gets annoying after a certain point.
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