- We don’t have player counts for Diablo III or Diablo II. We can safely conclude Diablo III sold more, but it selling more is somewhat meaningless if a fraction of players stuck around to play.
- My personal opinion on Diablo III is that if it was actually successful and more popular, I don’t think Blizzard would have dumped the game and scrapped its subsequent expansions that were planned after RoS. It’s pretty obvious that game didn’t have the player retention Blizzard wanted and RoS, while an excellent expansion, didn’t do much to pull back players who had left.
- While I’d agree that Diablo II purists are kind of annoying, Diablo II has stayed alive for 23 years even after Diablo III for a reason.
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D2 has been popular with baby-boomers that don’t like change. They are an annoying bunch and have contributed to the state of this current game. They constantly troll this forum as they constantly trolled the D3 forum spewing hate at anything that wasn’t D2. You can argue whether D2 was a good game when it came out, and it was, but D2 wouldn’t sell in todays market.
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You don’t need to speculate. D2: Resurrected sold 5 million copies as of April 2022. By all means, it sold pretty well.
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True. So I suppose claiming if either D2 or D3 were more popular isn’t a comparison you can make.
I think they just wanted a new game that was more monetizable. Hence Diablo 4.
I mean, ya, but they did release the ‘resurrected’ version.
It sold those copies to the nostalgic Diablo fanbase and after most of us played it a week we realized what a waste it was and quit soon after. Also 5 million copies at $20 to a Diablo fan base wouldn’t translate much for a new game.
While I’m sure there’s a large attachment rate of D2 players buying D2: Resurrected, the reality is that this is pure conjecture and we don’t know the actual ratio of existing and new players who bought the game. D2: Resurrected was the first time the game was available on console, opening it up to an entirely new demographic unfamiliar with D2 as a game. Furthermore, the market has been saturated with new age groups and playerbases in the years D2 has been released. To imply it’s a 1:1 ratio is somewhat dishonest.
It’s disingenuous to say D2 wouldn’t sell well in today’s market and then turn around and say “Yeah, but that doesn’t actually count” when presented with evidence suggesting otherwise. The fact of the matter is that it did sell well in today’s market.
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Since the head of this game has now changed how many times, 2, 3, 4 times? This in part is the issue. Many things were removed from this game, for one purpose, how to maximize profits. Set Pieces, Runes all gone and all could be valuable points to play on the eternal realm. It is as if they hired Stevie Wonder to come up with a plan… They all blind in this game. The repetitive nature of ARPGS, we get, but this is top notch boring. You get an item level 60s, it may stay with you until you level 100. I am proof, with my Frozen WW Barb, my pants, I can not get rid of.
Gaming in general is boring, creativity is somewhere.
DO not worry, the team, Blizzard North, some are getting back together and are promising an ARPG… Innovation is also lacking in this game, nothing new pops out.
PS: where is diablo
i mean he merely replied to your:
and if you are now taking “sales” as fact
diablo 2 lod sold 2,5M copy
diablo 2 resurrected sold : 5m copy
well.
diablo 3 sold over 30M copy.
Except he wasn’t, because he didn’t even quote that section of my argument. He was specifically responding to my pointing out that D2 was still alive 20 years after its release.
Actually engaging endgame system of Atlas of The Worlds form PoE magnitude for example, not some boring grind for eggs and shards (not to mention running silly bosses to convert mats first).
It doesn’t have to be same system or even similar, just as complex and engaging.
Why do we need to wait for itemization for another 4-5 months ? And what about crafting ? Why not make white bases and blue meaningful too as means for crafting.
We ware told we will not have Legendries raining from sky and what do we have now in harvest ?
This is just tip of Iceberg when it comes to current D4 problems, yet i will be back for next season if its good maybe till i get 100 and go play something else again once i get bored again 
Personally, I find it funny when people whine and complain saying those are boring etc. Yet, these same people praise D2 and D3 which is 3284974 times more boring and the replayability is even worse.
D2
Can farm ALL content by level 50-60 if you have the gear.
End game - Do your same farm route over and over and over again. Teleport to the boss (takes 1 min). Kill the boss (takes under a min). Rince and repeat. Even doing those couple of specific areas doesn’t take long and is all faceroll.
That’s it.
D3
Even easier to hit max level. Get carried in GFs.
End game - Spam GRs till your eyes bleed while you just destroy packs of mobs in a second.
That’s it.
At least D4 offers a lot more and anyone who says it doesn’t is delusional. And yes, I love D2 and back when it first originally launched, I loved it. D2:R has been amazing and I still will log on here and there to do the farm routes. But doesn’t defeat the fact that that is all there is to do in D2 for end game which get just as boring as the things people say about D4.
Stuff. The answer to your question is stuff
XP doesnt matter once level 100 obviously, the only thing that does is 1. Get your glyphs up (but that doesnt age well, it’s pretty fast) and 2. Most importantly get your toons the best possible gear
The whole problem IMO with current state is that they made it so the only (scrapping world bosses really) sustainable way to get better/the best gear in the game is 1-ONE-A SINGLE NPC.
All the rest is <Duriel.
The only reason people are doing Helltides and whispers is exactly for that. Helltides and Whispers have 0 intrinsic value to players besides providing mats to go farm that unique NPC, it’s just seen as a burden.
I still dont get why NMD100’s dont drop 925 items, or Helltide ‘bosses’, or AoZ (it’s not even guaranteed), or the other bosses (maybe not all of the items, but a % of their loot tables) or… you see what i mean i guess.
Once you hit 100 and get your glyphes up, the only thing you have left to improve your toon is give him better gear, respec, test new builds - all requiring Duriel kills, over and over
And honestly, as some people already mentioned, leveling is too fast. You get to level 100 in no time and then you get into that tunnel until next season, rince and repeat
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I actually saw them multiple times in my random games.
It was supposed to be this way.
Many were confused after completing Tier 100 NMD, the questions were asked and crickets was the response.
It was largely overshadowed by the Duriel farm loop and the 925’s there.(imo).
I’m still wondering when and IF this will be properly addressed as my own personal findings indicate it’s not functioning as they posted in the patch notes.
Though - *Note: It MIGHT be functioning properly in-line with their “Gear Progression Philosophy” one witnesses as they level up and gear up(outside of WBs/Carries/Duriel).
ie. Vendors not offering an Ancestral until 80-ish. Obols - same(with Rare exceptions from both Vendors).
Drops feeling incredibly “Throttled” and not or very rarely exceeding an Item Power threshold while in Tier 4 as a 60-70 Character.
It feels gated and contrived - I can DO the Content but the game is gating drops based upon a Character Level driven Formula.
This seems to be the case with Item Power 900+ and specifically 920-925 in NMD 100.
It appears that they’ve assigned some kind of Rarity/Snowflake weighting to them.
Moral of the Story and TLDR:
1. I WANT to be incentivized to LOOT ITEMS. It’s an Item Hunt game after all. That’s what’s exciting to me! IP 900-925 should not be once in a blue moon.
I should be picking up items in a NMD 90-100 - NOT Ignoring them(I do loot items but it feels like a waste of time…)
2. Code an Even Distribution with Item Power and Drop%/Rate when in challenging and difficult content so it reflects what was LISTED IN PATCH NOTES(below).
3. Stop arbitrary IP gating - especially behind 2 Monsters(Duri & WB). If players of lower level can push content - Don’t gate drops behind Character Level - it should be aligned with Area Level(again as noted in notes).
Level Scaling examples. Note this is iPower range for items dropped from Monsters of the listed level:
Sacred:Level 55: 625–700 Level 56: 627–702 Level 70: 655–730Ancestral:
Level 75: 780–855 Level 76: 782–857 Level 100: 830–925Post Level 100:
** Level 101: 831–925**
** Level 102: 832–925**
Note the above says nothing about Character Level - it’s all based on Mlvl.
Side Note: No. I’m not fixated on “925” - Weapons yes ofc, but if an “878” has gg stats I’ll use it. No doubt.
This is about the apparently coded arbitrary Rarity of 900+ in areas where their own Notes stated they’d be dropping.
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For me:
Ladders will be useless… wow, same meta builds farming aoz 25… who cares… we can’t even see the builds our friends are using, I don’t assume ladders will give us any information to consider other build options by looking at players on the ladders.
The build diversity is underwhelming, and appears to be softlocked behind seasons which allow for minor changes in the boring build diversity. Like, the skills seem to be unbalanced to a point that theorycrafting is a full time job as we have no build storage to quickly change builds, and the time needed to try new builds is overwhelming, to find out how bad the build sucks or is unbalanced. Alas, problems created by blizzard, solutions sold by blizzard.
Gear… don’t get me started. I suppose to summarize, gear progression is boring, reading a 10 chapter book every hour just going through gear stats. I never feel like I’m finding epic loot which could change what certain skills/builds are capable of, maybe completely changing the skill… maybe in time more items will come, as long as we keep buying into the yearly expansions filled with cut content we pay for. End game options - will come with the first expansion, it will be the main hook, cut content for sales.
Farming bosses/uber - Why would I farm boring helltide for materials to find uber gear that will be obsolete by the time I find it?? Is this an mmo that resets your progression every 3 months??
Uber items - are you seriously proud of the personal challenge and goals of finding the item, doing mind numbing repeated farming for items that are borderline useless for certain builds that are proving to hit aoz 25 without them? Shouldn’t these be items around lv 50+ to enhance and potentially change the dynamics of our skills and builds? Maybe dropping from nightmare dungeons or higher challenges scenarios??
Eternal realm - is just part of the marketing to push people into seasons - to push people into the monetized game they already purchased. As there is no account progression, it is just a baseline platform for your graveyard of obsolete characters, that you once loved.
0 account progression - I’ll be honest, the one thing about d3, there was always account progression with paragon, which softens the blow for a lot of people who do want to play seasons, but relish the thought of making their progression on each character obsolete every few months. As this is a weird hybrid arpg/mmo, it seems ignorant that some sort of account progression was not part of the plan.
LFG - the only arpg/mmo I know of without proper communication abilities in game. They’d rather allow you, the consumer, to take the finger and find your own 3rd party software to find a damn group should you want.
Live service - marketing term for “we’ll keep working on the game if you keep giving us money on our digital platform that was made specifically to sell digital art, even though you paid full price for this highly undercooked beta release, plz bend over and pay us for our yearly expansions”
Either they keep updating the game or they don’t, “live service” marketing is getting old.
The open world itself - feels repetitive, feels like a sandbox mmo open world grind levels against the same enemies with different colors, but on a much smaller scale than an mmo, a massive arena of land basically. Feels like a simulator for proof of concept, not proof of content. How many times can a person replay the same exact content with 0 world or dungeon generation?
I truly expected cosmetics to be part of an account progression. Like, I would be farming all day long if there were cosmetics to farm. There’s not. It’s clear only the good looking or magical items are locked behind oddly high paywalls and clearly bundled in a manor that you have to spend $60-$100 for one set of armor, back piece, and weapons and pony to match.
Overall, this game just feels scummy to me. It’s clear blizzard is an entirely different company, killing overwatch and league to rename it overwatch 2 and fully monetize the game, and make battlepasses absolute horrible. WC3 remake was a disaster, but some people bought it, easy money. Now we have Diablo 4 - feels just as scummy as what blizzard has released over the past decade. The level of scum this game brings me is an all new high. Cut content beta release for full price plus highly monetized digital art instead of part of the game you just purchased. Always creating problems, and selling us the solutions. Feels like a casual console player game that was ported to pc.
Ohh, camera zoom levels and stash, overall, both areas are underwhelming with camera feeling too close, and stash limiting the potential for theorycrafting.
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It seems to me an auction house would cure this problem. Not a real money AH like D3 had but one like other games have that only deals with in game currency. No more useless items clouding stash and no worry of illegal trading with bad money because its now all out in the open.
Makes sense to me at least.
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the solution is already in the game : Blood harvest
- Great ennemies density : elite and trash
- rewards with chest ans seeker’s key
- No stupid ans Boring Time gated activities
- tree of whispers challenges
- multiplayer possibilities with the bosses summons
Helltides :
- poor density is a very Big issue
- chest are Boring (300 cinders !) + stupid death penalty
- No whispers challenges
- the stupidest Idea in videogame industry… Time Gated activities… 3 hours to be able to play !!!
- random boss not open to mulplayer fun
People just get tired of the grind without anything interesting happening. It’s normal. It will go away as they continue to add things maybe. Or maybe not.
well , blood harvest is great and all for experience and some not-very high end loot.
it has nice ideas indeed.
but it’s quiet lackluster in term of end-game (monsters are weak, the loot you can drop there is kinda weak too after lv 85+, and unlike helltide, it won’t give mat to do a higher content later on, sure it can give whisper but so do all area in the game and you have to wait until it cycle once you did all the whisper of the blood harvest which take like 5min to complete)
And sure it’s nice for exp but you’ll still need to do NMD eitherway to improve your glyph later on and doing so already give wayy more exp than you need to get lv 100.
But, let’s say each season had a unique uber boss and you had to do the seasonal area (here , blood harvest) to get the mat for it.
It could be quiet nice as an alternative.
Though, personally, what i’d like the devs to do is to give alternatives.
At the moment most people farm helltide and whispers purely for duriel.
But, if ANY bosses that is lv 120+ in nmd had for example a 0,5% chance at uber drop (or less since 0,5% with no mat required is quiet a bit too high maybe) it could be a decent alternative to mindless duriel farm.
The problem is the boring loot, your doing all these things for uninspired loot. The whole loop is just unrewarding.
Until Itemisation is fixed the game is gonna be meh overall.
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