Is this possible? Sensible, constructive conversation on an internet Forum? Shocking!
I like this moderate idea that helps alleviate a minor issue. Blizzard, take note please.
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Going to try no basic skill for every class…and those 2 points are super annoying (both in being wasted and in that they likely designed too much stuff around everyone having one of them WHILE also talking in dev blogs about how they are so smart they didn’t just give one of them to lvl 1 chars so ppl won’t be biased into continuing to use that one).
To be fair, they have also stated they want resource to mean something, which might mean they will nerf any build that doesn’t require it. Also, if that were the case, why wouldn’t they just give us a talent point for the quest we completed? Wouldn’t that accomplish the same goal? Here’s a talent point, pick what you want rather than a +1 firebolt staff?
Thank you, Friend-o! This is what I’m all about.
I think you are being too hasty in dissing the builders. For example Splinters for necro helps applying vulnerability. If anything such effects should be made more appealing.
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I’m not “dissing” them, I’m suggesting they be optional, rather than mandatory. you are forced to take one of them, for at least two points, even if you never use it.
Hence why I say they should be worth using even if you dont actively use them for resource regen.
As in a good secondary effect to benefit from.
Firebolt could noticeably lenghten burn duration on target, keeping making it relevant. Perhaps the highest burn enhancer of all fireskills. So a firemage would want to dip into it.
I’m sure once you hit end game and get more gear you’ll be back to spamming skills with no regard to resource cost, and clearing screens with one button. No thought required.
Sounds truly engaging.
They could totally go that way, but that is very, very difficult to design. For the class I play, a sorceress, they would have to do thing like “Firebolt causes Fire direct damage spells to burn enemies” or Frostbolt something like “Frozen enemies to shatter” or Lightning damage to stun. You’d still get something for your two points, but it’s magnitude of difficulty to then check EVERY spell to make sure it works with every spell of that element.
And that’s just sorceress. Seemed easier to bring up the +max mana talent, and that still follow the theme of the tier.
Better than having players not wanting to use builders at all because they have become obsolete. They should have a reason to exist.
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That’s a good counterpoint, Icewolf. Good discussion. They literally could move all the enchantment effects from Firebolt, Frostborn etc into the “enhanced” spell version and make new enchantments for those slots, but I’m not sure if we accomplished anything, we had a spell that’s taken only for it’s passive effect at enhancing other spells, and never used. We have just reduced how much waste was generated for their design time.
Have a feeling i’m gonna enjoy our discussions , though. 
In poe my favourite build was righteous fire. weird huh?
Looking back at d3, the wizard also had free signature spells to cast when low on energy. Though they have a passive to increase the energy regen rate with 2.5 per second. But the signature spells also have noticeable damage mods on them.
i’ll have to wait for later but yeah that was the case in the beta.
the passives were so meh regarding that too. +3 mana for a skill point? no ty lol
i tried to pull off some procs of mana regen firewalls from the hydra’s burns but the proc rate was so low it was barely even testable lol
then i rolled summon necro and walked through the whole thing eyes closed never looking at my mana.
Basic skills should do more dmg imo. Obviously significantly less than spenders, but enough that you feel they are part of your dmg kit overall, and not merely there to preserve/generate resource or apply status effects. Which of course should still be their primary purpose.
I dont want to see a D3 repeat, where one skill deals 99%+ of your dmg.
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For sure, but don’t expect to be able to cast teleport 3 times a second and spamming all of your expensive spells all day long, especially in a game that seamingly doesn’t have any immunities that you need to get around (though I could be wrong on that one).
Diablo 2 is way broken, the last 2 patches didn’t really help either.
The balance on D4 is going to be atrocious for awhile, perhaps forever.
i agree with this. it seemed too limited and the basic skills too grindy in the balance of how often you had to use them before you could use the bigger skills (i mean, we want to be SUSING the bigger skills, but as it stands your primary attack is forced into the basic startling level skills forever). im hoping that this is more due to the lvl 25 cap of the beta and that when we can get above that things will get better. it was always very cool and satisfying to be able to get to a point where you no longer HAD to run basic skills but could make a more varied build of just mana cost skills for epic and satisfying slaying.
i also very much agree that CD on teleport is just annoying. d2 had it right. make the limiting factor be mana not CD. i was very thankful that there was that legendary wand in d3 that removed the CD, which i then immediately put in the cube and put on every wizard build after that, but it was dumb to have to use that slot for something that SHOULD be baked into the ability
Free use teleport is not something that should be easilly gained. You should need to invest in getting it low.
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You didnt play very much did you?
I was able to get 30% mana cost reduction paired with 30% increased resource generation (and I bet some people got more than me) + other effects to recover mana from equipment, affixes, skills, etc. + bonus resource capacity, though regeneration is based off of a fixed rate (base 10/s), not a % of capacity like in D2.
Plus complaining about a cooldown, you can get cooldown reduction in many forms too. You are clearly missing a LOT of the tiny fraction of the game that was available to us in the beta, so it makes me want to just rip into you for ignorantly complaining about this like so many other people are doing about various ‘issues’ according to their own limited perspective.
Since at the very least you do acknowledge there is the possibility of things you don’t know/yet to be seen, I’ll give you this half-decent response. I hope my tempered feedback helps you.
There is much more beyond what we had access to in the beta that is known information through datamining/leaks of paragon boards, uniques, aspects, etc and the end-game test.
PS - Frozen Orb is trash in D4. It is mostly a flashy graphical effect along a path that hits once as it travels and once more with the explosion. It’s not like D2 orb that had individual spikes shot out each with its own ability to score a hit, possibly landing 50 spikes on a target if you did it right.
I’m exploring the possibility of a no-core or even no-mana-use build. Sounds weird, but I have my reasons and mechanics plotted out. Either way, I’ll be using Ice Shards as a frost sorc until the point I can transition. Frozen orb is horrible.
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I do think they should have different kinds of classes.
More CD focused and what not. The problem with all classes having the same mechanism but different look of skills is just that, it’s just a different look.
Build resource, spend resource, pop CD, occasionally use your utility.
This is exactly how each class plays.