Puncture is a marksman skill but doesn’t use a ranged weapon. Also, having two means you are twice as likely to get it and you can double dip.
You can do the underlying damage types without using skills of the corresponding type, because of enchantments and crackling energy. These affixes also slot onto different equipment. For example, pyro skill damage appears only on chests and ammys, whereas fire damage also appears on gloves and rings.
Well they stack. So if u ever need to min max this way, it works for u.
This is the first argument I have seen that makes sense (as a positive in favor of this setup). That said I seriously doubt Blizzard set this up for people to take advantage of double dipping (in fact now that you mentioned players can use this to their benefit expect a nerf in the future). It clearly feels like just added affixes to dilute the affix pool. Maybe that’s not accurate but that’s what it feels like.
Puncture is a Marksman skill that scales with dual wield weapon damage % not ranged damage %.
Traps and grenades scale off your ranged weapon if your ranged damage surpasses your dual wield damage.
For the most part ranged weapon damage is just better than marksman skill damage however.
Bro stop lmao.
You know why spell casters need weapons in D3 and D4? Because Blizzard is too lazy to tie each skill’s output to their own base value. Instead they chose to use a universal variable, called weapon damage.
It was extremely unpopular in D3 and limited design avenues, and it’s extremely unpopular in D4 and limits design avenues.
You’re trying sooo hard to shill for Blizzard with damn near every one of your responses, but the mental gymnastics you have to perform to do so makes it a very difficult sell for all but the most loyal Blizzard fanboys.
There’s nothing even remotely exciting about the absolute list of Damage and Damage Reduction affixes in this game.
They made so many because they wanted to make it seem like the game has a lot of affixes, because they either couldn’t come up with other interesting affixes or ideas, or they could, but realized very quickly they lack the basic math to balance it.
And if we’ve learned anything about the D4 dev team up to this point, it’s that they don’t have even a high school-level mathematician on their payroll. See: Current class balance, the state of vulnerability mechanics
You’re embarrassing yourself.
Where are you seeing that fire and cold are physical DMG? Last I checked all elemental DMG including these, lightning, shadow, and poison is non-physical. I can’t hit someone with the flame from a lighter
Marksmen is a rogue specific line of skills on their tree like Sorc and those elements. There is 100% overlap and redundancy in class specific labels and the generic names for classes that are not centered around the DMG type. IE. Druid does lightning DMG but this is just an additional layer to their storm skill line
One, D&D, Pathfinder, Warhammer, etc. from Table Top carry weapons but that damage is separate. So, I know that it can be done, I know that it has been done. Blizzard has never done it this way and that does not mean it is lazy - lack of innovation, yes - but not inherently lazy.
Two, if you want to talk about lazy, let’s look at the players. Do they try to combine Bleed and Stun, Immobile and Frozen, etc. and that answer is no. They complain about lack of build diversity because everything must have vulnerable or critical strike. So, one could argue that you are a shill for the laziest, least competent players out there. However, we both know this is not true.
Three, so I am not a shill for Blizzard. An explanation was asked for, a clarification was asked for, and that is what has been given. There are many things I do not like about D4 (I am really not seeing infinite replayability, I can’t check the map without dying, the skill tree has way too many wasted skills) but the damage affixes are not one of them.
The damage buckets and reduction sources are done because people want simple and easy but Blizzard wants build diversity. Even without the formula known, we have outrageous things occurring. Ashava is supposed to be ONLY doable in a group of 12 - maybe. However, one person - using a single spell - completed the task. Another person did 1.8 Billion in single hit damage. So, everyone is shocked when nerfs happen.
Four, do you know what an Ad Hominem Argument is? Look it up if you do not because you are doing it. This does nothing for your cause.
“Why do they have two stats that arguably do the same thing?”
HAVE YOU NEVER PLAYED A VIDEO GAME BEFORE?
Oh my god. Every stat arguably does the same thing, it increases your damage. Why have stats at all then right? Just remove all the stats/affixes and just put “You does moar pew pew!”
One, We are talking about needless affixes - even Sawyer above agrees with the OP that many of affixes - like Cold, Shock are not really needed - it is just physical damage. I and they know it is listed separately but that is not what is being talked about. Sawyer and the OP find that Blizzard is going out of their way to complicate things and anyone stating different is a shill (like Sawyer stated in his most recent post). So, it should be Fire, Cold, Shock should come under physical damage.
Two, you admitted what the OP originally stated, there is no need to separate marksman and ranged. You have all but proven the original point of the OP. Blizzard has needless affixes that just add confusion and they need to be gone. So, no storm damage for the druid, at best there is just lightning but it should be just a different form of physical.
I disagree. It makes casters care about weapons, and in a loot-based game that’s important.
In D2 Sorcs were the best MF class because they didn’t care as much about their gear and personally I find that super dumb. It’s literally a game about getting loot to get stronger, the idea of some class not scaling off loot is just asinine. I’m not debating some random on the internet about that, I’m stating it as a fact, get over it.
This is true though. Having a piece of gear with four DR affixes is just… silly. And it’s only going to get more common once Blizzard removes resistances. I hate resistances as stats, don’t get me wrong, but it is going to make this problem worse.
Table-top games are role-playing simulators, not loot grinders. The balance of table top games is also super sus so don’t even get me started on that (simulacrum, wish, etc).
We LITERALLY already have “Crowd Controlled” damage as a stat.
Most of these stats don’t add meaningful build diversity though. Damage vs damage against bleed vs damage against crowd controlled vs damage against whatever…
In fact in some cases they are reducing diversity. % vs burning targets has much better scaling than most other stats it pigneoholes sorcs into applying burning damage. While vulnerable damage scaling is obviously insane, vulnerable damage usually have multiple hooks / application mechanics, and notably every single class can easily slot exploit into their build. With burning, you’re pigeonholed into burning one of two precious enchantment slots to apply it, reducing diversity.
Yep. It just means the skills that have the marksman label benefit from the affix. If you use daggers and a marksman skill you won’t get the ranged damage benefit. But i think puncture can be used outside melee range so you will get the +damage to distant enemies. Unless youre in melee range because you happen to use daggers then you don’t benefit.
Charming isnt it? 
Examples of affix bloat. Condense it to “minions”.
All the niche damage reduction or +damage to specific debuff should be taken off loot and moved to the talent tree.
Also, limiting loot to 4 affixes is a huge problem. D2 had a ton of niche affixes but loot could also have 7+ affixes.
On a sorcerer we have +cold damage and +frost damage. Every frost skill does cold damage or vice versa so idk what’s up with that.
Yes, but that would ultimately cause problems in D4 where you have all item slots except 1 or 2 pieces being legendary items. In D2 that was fine because rare items were not commonly best in slot items.
Increasing the affix count up from 4 would just add to time spent inspecting items to see if they are a suitable upgrade, which is already one of the least fun activities in Diablo 4 right now.
One is cold damage (damage for skills that deal cold damage) and one is damage vs frozen (any damage to enemies that are in a frozen state). They relate to similar concepts on the surface but actually behave very differently.
Just pretend it’s that unique staff that dropped with ‘place holder’ in it with no stats, but better because it actually does something. 99% of items are useless anyways, so it really doesn’t matter what it is, could be anything filler.
In it’s current form, absolutely. I think this is mostly due to the UI and how wordy current affixes are. If reworked to be less convoluted, it wouldn’t be as bad.
I realize I’m requesting a rework of affixes in general lol and that won’t happen anytime soon, or at all, so it is what it is.
I’m not referring to +frozen damage. I’m pretty sure I found gear pieces or something with +frost damage. Multiple times.
There is cold, frost, and frozen. Frozen is different but the first 2 are basically same thing.
I don’t think it exists. You can check this site to confirm.
https://www.d4craft.com/?c=4&b=Wand
One, I would argue that trying to find a +1 Book of Physical Power (+1 to STR) is a loot grind. Also, part of the whole reason we get gold is so that we can spend it to buy things we don’t find but need.
Two, and that is why Frozen, Stun, etc. are not really needed. The OP even stated that adding “flavor” is not necessarily a good thing.
Three, one of my arguments is that people are going for easy. Vulnerable and critical strike are easy. Building around Poison and Immobile is not so easy. These stats are meaningful but only if you are not going for easy.