Minion command & targeting UI/Controller Mapping

With all the minion changes, it’s as good a time as any to open a discussion on the challenges and possible solutions to incorporating a way to command summons (minions, companions, etc.) in order to have more control over them. My assumption is that the biggest hurdle would be a way to implement fairly for both keyboard & mouse and controller, with controller representing the primary limitation.

I had mentioned this in my Necro Minion post, but I think this topic deserves its own thread, especially since it applies to Druid and any other future pet-class (looking at you, Mysterious Unrevealed Expansion Class). I prefer the term minions, so I’m just going to use that to reference all summons of any class.

As the forums just suggested a ton of similar threads on this since last June, this is obviously a much requested feature that has yet to be implemented in the game.


CONCEPTS / PURPOSE

The funniest part to me is that previous Blizzard games are what taught me about these mechanics in the first place, many years ago. So this is certainly not a new concept to the company, but for the sake of discussion, I’ll just review some of the commands and reasoning.

There are many benefits for having more control over your minions, especially for builds using minions for their primary source of damage or defense.

  • Gives power to the player, allowing much more active management over their army
  • Engaging, satisfying combat (both pve and pvp).
  • Removes the burden from AI to correctly assume a player’s intentions (which also removes the burden of programmers to design the perfect AI)
  • Fulfill class fantasies
  • Opens doors from a design standpoint for more advanced enemy and dungeon mechanics

In the simplest form, it would just be a directed Attack.

  • Refocusing minions to prioritize auto-attacking a general direction or selected target
  • Targeting time-sensitive enemies such as Blood Blisters
  • Targeting high-threat or high-value targets, such as the Butcher or treasure goblins.
  • Staying focused on targets at extended ranges to free up the player being able to move and dodge mechanics (especially in higher difficulties, i.e. Echo of Lilith)
  • Could also be used to have minions dodge mechanics
  • Splitting up focus to have minions cover an area, NPC, or party member, while the player attacks another.

additional minion commands may include -

Defend

  • Dropping focus to return to the player’s side immediately, then defaulting to auto-attacking by proximity
  • Does not require directional input

Follow

  • Dropping focus to return to player’s side immediately to follow without attacking
  • Does not require directional input

Hold Position

  • Can be used for more advanced defensive tactics and control
  • Keep minions from following you into danger / triggering traps.

Active Abilities

  • These are already in the game, but additional UI options could allow for more than one active minion ability.

CONSIDERATIONS

Designed for both KBM & Controller
Adding minion commands on a keyboard would be simple with the surplus of available hotkeys and combinations, and targeting is equally considered to be more advanced/easier with a mouse. The main limitation, as mentioned, seems to be making this work for the controller.

Having played D4 almost exclusively with controller, I’m very familiar with the lack of hotkey mapping options, as all choices are already filled, and even adding a single additional control like Zoom would require sacrificing an essential control. In its current state, it’s hard to modify.

Integrating with Existing Parameters
Diablo 4 was setup that there are six skills available on your skillbar. Since even ultimates do not have their own separate skill slot and must exist within the six, and the game is fully balanced around this design, it’s safe to assume devs wouldn’t want to make an exception for this. And ideally, any solution would not introduce additional command skills that would compete with existing ones or challenge the structure already in place. This is complicated further by the fact that both Necromancers and Druids both have multiple summon skills.

Simplicity and Accessibility
Another consideration in design is going to be to keep everything ideally as simple, well-organized, and natural feeling as possible, so that the intent isn’t lost behind poor executive. You need to be able to access these commands quickly, in tense, fast-paced fights. Additionally, they need to be accessible to work for all players of varying skill level and ability.


POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS

Multi-function Single-Button Skill
// Raise Skeleton

One of the simplest solutions is having it built-in to the Raise Skeleton Skill, similar to how they handled it in D3 with Command Skeleton. It should feel intuitive and natural given how the controller mapping and skill targeting works with controllers in the rest of the game.

I would rather have the ability to control where minions are focusing their attack even if it means switching corpse targeting to an auto-target (or, “smart” target).

  • Primary Function - Target Attack (directional aiming)
    If aiming on target or area on activation, minions charge and attack the target/area. If target dies/invulnerable or if no target was selected, minions would focus auto-attack in that area. Upon no enemies, minions default to Defend Player.
  • Primary Function - Defend Player (no aiming / mouse near player)
    If not aiming on activation, minions drop current focus and select new targets within close range to the player. If no targets exist, minions would return to player, then default to auto-attacking based on proximity (similar to current minion AI auto-attack).
  • Secondary Function - Raise Skeleton (optional aiming, auto-selects corpse)
    On activation, also summon skeleton from corpse based on aimed direction (or near player if not aiming). If no corpses are available, automatically defaults to any nearby corpse. This ensures both primary and secondary function can work simultaneously without conflict, but the shift to auto-selecting the corpse would prioritize the attack command when aiming.

// Golem

Since the active ability already is a targeting command function, there are a few ways this could work.

While it’s certainly a simpler approach to just choose one of these options for all players, removing any need for additional UI changes, there are pros and cons to each method. It could be preferred to present players the choice of how they want to command their minions.

This could be done by adding additional UI options via the Book of the Dead or the Skill Assignment tab (similar to Barbarian’s weapon select) to choose how to command the Golem:

  • via the Raise Skeleton skill (paired with Skeleton command)
  • via the Golem skill (paired with their own Active Ability cast)
  • Neither (auto-targeting)

Binding Golem’s Attack/Defend command to Raise Skeleton

  • For players with both skills equipped, could combine them together so the Golem would be controlled through the same button and commands as your Skeletons
  • Pro - Only one command for full army control, simpler & faster
  • Pro - Golem’s Active Ability’s activation not tied to commanding Golem
  • Con - Requires both skills equipped to separate control
  • Con - Apart from Golem’s Active, lose ability to split focus of minions

Binding Golem’s Attack/Defend command to Golem skill

  • Would work by always casting the Active Ability when not on cooldown but also need to be usable even when the Active Ability was on cooldown.
  • Pro - Player could command golem and skeletons separately
  • Pro - Works for golem-only builds
  • Con - Will always use the Active Ability even if just wanting to command Golem.

No Bind (how the Golem currently works)

  • The Golem’s attack is controlled through AI auto-target
  • (The same option could also be available for Raise Skeleton)
  • Pro - presents players with more choice
  • Pro - some players prefer the more passive playstyle of AI minions

Long-Holding Keybinds for Secondary Actions or Extended Menu
– This feature could be used for anything in-game, not just minions, and is worth considering even if no minion changes are made

Using holds to access additional actions could be added to greatly increase the available key bindings, which could be critical for success on a controller.

Currently, I don’t believe either are used in-game in either form. The closest is the emote wheel, which is a toggle menu and not ideal for fast combat.

// Hold Keybind for Secondary Command
This would be unique to each skill. Many skills may still only have quick-casts, but if the skill would have a secondary hold ability, then the skill would not quick-cast on press, but would wait until the key was released. If the key is held for a set amount of time, say, 0.5 seconds, then it would switch to a secondary ability. i.e.

  • Could be just an alternate ability, such as Strong Attack
  • Could be channeled, such as extending the range of an attack, reaching max range at 2.0 seconds holding
  • Could be used to add “upgrades” to skills through aspects or Skill Tree, such as adding the ability to charge the skill to shoot additional projectiles or a larger AoE

Pertaining to minions, this could be used to separate the features mentioned above, such as -

Raise Skeleton

  • Quick-release would handle the attack/defend command
  • Holding >=0.5 seconds activates continuous auto-cast Raise Skeleton from corpse selection in aimed direction / mouse location

// Hold Keybind for Extended Skill Menu
Essentially multi-button commands, like a controller’s version of holding “shift” or “control”

On holding a key/button down, the UI could visually either flip the skillbar to a secondary set of skills, or pop-up circle showing assigned skills with their keybind / controller buttons (i.e. X Square Triangle Circle or Up Down Left Right) – hopefully that makes sense without a picture.

This would allow you to have multiple actions assigned to the same buttons, adding potentially many more options. i.e.

Raise Skeleton

  • Skill is assigned to L2, for example
  • Quick-release L2 for Activity Ability (summon minion)
  • Holding L2 rotates the skillbar to a secondary skillset -
    • X is now “Command minions to attack”
    • Square is now “Defend / Return to player”
    • Triangle is now “Hold Position”
    • Circle is “Follow player”

But this could be used for other classes too, to consolidate skills or abilities in ways that make more sense and free space for new skill options –

Rogue: Weapon Imbuement

  • Skill is assigned to L2, for example
  • Holding L2 rotates the skillbar to a secondary skillset -
    • X is now “Cold Imbuement”
    • Square is now “Poison Imbuement”
    • Triangle is now “Shadow Imbuement”
    • Circle is “Fire Imbuement” - :wink:

Closing

Ultimately, none of these are original ideas. I laid it out in detail to help just make it clear exactly how this could work, but every single one of these concepts are industry standards and used in other controller-based games for many years. This makes me feel even more convinced that any of these systems could be used effectively because players are already experienced using them in other games, for a long time, so they will feel natural and intuitive from a controller or keyboard standpoint.

Further, combinations of all the various options can be utilized – such as extended menu accessing secondary skillbars with skills that also have long-hold charged attacks. Altogether, this would bring the controller to life and give developers so much more ground to work with instead of keeping everything contained and limited with the current restrictions, and it can be used for many skills and any class, not just minion controls.

Thanks for reading! Please let me know what you guys think. Add your own feedback and suggestions too. Hopefully we can one day see a system added to gain more minion control.

1 Like

There are very good ideas…
Why would minions attack barriers, invulnerable targets, ads in the middle of a boss fight ?
Necros are supposed to be the commanders of the dead, not the other way around !!
Having a pet move/attack command button would solve it :slight_smile:

1 Like

I wonder if the devs ever thought of such ideas to solve it…

I use Aspect of Metamorphosis for this because it breaks the link between summons and the necro and re-establishes after the dash finishes. It basically hard resets the summons AI when it screws up badly.

It’s janky and not ideal but it does work.

1 Like

I’m just sad because they already had a skill called command skeletons in Diablo 3. And some that they auto target the next closest mob after its primary died and kept th attack power buff. D 4 was a massive step back for minions. Hence the need to completely revert all the initial minion nerfs from the beta.

1 Like

Minions here has colision, just like in D2 (unless when you clump then with teleport/enigma).

Colision is the major problem to have a command buttons, as i said in other topics.

To me, it will cause more problems than solve, because if you command your army to atack specific mobs, some of then will just run around doing nothing, trying to reach your target non stop.

In D3, skeletons dont had colision on skill…

The solution would be pretty simple, having a new interface only for minion controler where we can choice who minion will interact, what they will do in fight if they have to focus on a single monster or attack any monster that come near the player first, monster with the lowest life etc that way there is no need to have a buttom to spam every second.

My pitch has always been:

When you use the golem active, it directs all your minions to attack its target.

Simple, easyish to implement, and adheres to their “limit the buttons” design philosophy

Too many minions, so especially if you select an enemy with a small hitbox they can’t all attack it and would probably jank out trying.

I think it’s fine; it’s balanced because a lot of the big damage spread abilities can’t really focus fire. Tornados, Frozen Orbs, etc. all just spread themselves out randomly and kind of attack whatever. If minions have enough speed and damage to make up for their general lack of control I don’t see the issue.

1 Like

I’m sure they have, and that they have completely legitimate reasons for why they made it the way they did, whether by design or limitations or compromises or whatever. They know 10000% more about the workings of the game and the behind the scenes stuff than me or anyone else not on the dev team. I just ultimately hope one day we can have more active minion control, that’s all.

What on Earth makes you believe that’s a limitation for D4?

Man, those are sugestions i wrote since the first launch and nobody cared, now you come with a tesis with the same. Also people were insulting me and stuff like that and now they say oh, is a great suggestion!!! thanks!!!, what have you done to them, do you pay people? XD.

1 Like

Because to remove colision, they will need to let minions unstoppable or then let them walk free beetween monsters, which isnt something i think devs want to do.

It will change too much game design (at least my opnion).

Anyway, this is something every necro can ask to devs, but i simple cant see this work on pratice, considering all that i said.

Why would they remove collision to begin with? That’s nonsense. The issue is with skeletons lagging on target acquisition and the crappy leash range that breaks too easily.

I exclusively play minionmancer. I know what I’m talking about here.

I already said, just read my replies before…

If you target specific mob, some minion will do nothing trying to reach them… Perhaps you re thinking only about mages that are ranged, this isnt the case of warriors that play big part in utility and tank.

Also trying to convince others that you have more experience, saying things like “I know what I’m saying”, usually does just the opposite, especially in forums where most players don’t even know each other :wink:.

I wish you good luck with your suggestion, not hurt put your perspective, just like me.

1 Like

Your minions aggro isn’t tied to your aggro. What you’re expecting is something that never existed and it probably shouldn’t be like that because your minions attacking multiple targets is generally a good thing due to their collision. It lets them “tank” the enemy even if the enemy ignores them, mostly.

What it seems like you want is a focus fire button for summons, which I agree should be a thing.

In this case though, I do what what I’m talking about. You’re talking about things that never existed, however. So IDK man, I don’t wanna be mean or rude but this is one of those -.- “really?” moments lol.

Anyhow we’re all here for one thing, to support D4 in some way. Disagreeing doesn’t mean fighting and I get the feeling you think otherwise in this case. Dialogues go two ways. Otherwise this may as well be a Reddit echo chamber. Cheers!

They can give us an option for minions to focus fire on a target, so we decide when to use it.

You’re making this way more complicated than it needs to be. In Last Epoch and in Grim Dawn (due to the way I have my keybinds setup) you press “A” on your keyboard and your pets either move to your mouse marker or attack the mob under your mouse marker. That’s all that needs to happen.

They could even borrow some code from Star Craft 2 for general interface and ‘strategy’ of what the minions are supposed to be doing.

they don´t need to remove collision, i make videogames, there are pathtracking, script to recognise colliders and set the best way to move, and there is something called, be with your necro sucker AI. Also most of the time they are, is just bugged. When you enter a boss fight they usually reborn when you have zero. So they should do that forever instead of spamming and wasting buttons and everything.