Because people tend to scream “D4 has no endgame” yet when it comes down to it, there is no end game in any random loot generated rpg. The entire point of the games is to farm for loot so you can get better at farming loot. People say “But Poe2 and Last Epoch have endgames”. No the hell they do not, they are literally just different forms of “kill this to get gear” so you can, one more time for those in the back, farm loot better.
To be completely honest, the endgame is what a player makes it. Once you have killed everything in the game, its all about farming for a new build, an achievement, or a new alt. People just don’t want things to end, because as a player base we consume, consume, consume until there isn’t anything left that is new and exciting because we crave that feeling of discovery. Just like people who play Classic Wow, they crave that feeling they had when they first went into the game, but in reality they will never get it back.
There has never been a loot based arpg with the “Endgame” that everyone moans about, and there never will be, because it doesn’t exist.
I think it’s a bit of an odd thing saying the game has no End game.
It has an end game, it always has. It’s just not one people seem to like. People want end game progression. Well, that’s the Paragon Board. They want end game scaling content. That’s the pit. They want End game item chasing. That’s GA items.
They could add 1000 things to do in the end game, but everyone will say they want more end game. It’s so strange to me. Maybe it’s because I don’t go through the game as quickly as humanly possible, but I don’t think I’ve ever finished the end game in a single season ever. I just haven’t had the time to do so because I’m too busy… engaging with the game’s End game.
If the issue really is the fact that we are doing the same things at the end that we are while leveling, that’s because people ASKED for that. Helltides didn’t used to be available while leveling, but Season 2 made it obvious that people enjoyed that. The only thing we can’t really do while leveling is the Pit and the boss Gauntlet, so that technically makes the Pit the endgame. People just don’t like it, and that’s fair. It’s still an End game. Same with the boss gauntlet, some like it, some don’t. But it’s still the end game.
I think what he ment by leveling was putting your build together. Hitting 60, getting 200ish paragon. Getting your aspects, uniques, mythics, GAs master worked, bricks replaced, glyphs leveled, runes found. Gems crafted.
That’s the game. Once you’ve “built” you’re character you are done. There isn’t anything to do you haven’t already done many, many, MANY times.
He obviously didn’t mean “Whelp, I’m 60 I win at Diablo”
Why is everyone obsessed about “endgame” if it’s gonna be something that (arguably) only 5-10% of players will play ?
More systems ?, sure, start at lvl45, paragon/MW rework ?, sure, start at lvl25
Why does everyone want to “elongate” the game (instead of enrich it along the way ?), why add content in game that people would have to play long hours just to even attempt ?
Finished early ?, fine, make it harder to complete, but make it with more substance along the way
That way is fun for both - those that want to finish/complete, and those that just want to play their own thing and find out how far they can get
This is D2 as well… What D4 lacks is monster evolution or at least an advanced system of evolution of the game so that late game feels “different” (not just scaling but you know - the game itself)
Whatever it is (the system) does not have to be something sitting “on top” of the current game (in fact I’d argue it shouldn’t)
Sheesh, same mistakes S1 when sped-up the game, S4 with the Pit addition, and if this is the decision to go forward with then I must say same mistake repeated again
You are generalizing here quite a bit. The myriad possibilities for what exactly? I think the thread opener wants more to target than a pit number and I fully agree with that.
Name any ARPG endgame that doesn’t boil down to one thing. I’ll wait.
D4 compensates for this in the following ways: It has an excellent campaign, a playable open world, helltides, NMD, Pits, Hordes, seasonal mechanics (although, yes, these are terrible), the undercity, and whispers.
What you are, is the typically angry gamer. It’s everywhere, and rife with hyperbole.
What D4 isn’t, is this horrendous and empty game that deserves constant bashing from those who present zero solutions to whichever problem irks them on a given day.
It’s not the Dev’s job to tell the player what to do. They make a season with some extra goals and rewards that you may or may not decide to interact with, and the rest is up to the player whether they farm for the BiS gear of their build, make tons of alts to try out other builds, farm for a Holy Grail, etc etc.
As I stated, you are generalizing. You have your own opinion on the matter, but I am also a fan of the franchise and still very critical on countless of things. I dont expect anyone to check my post history first before commenting, but I invite you to click on this link: 2024 🍾 A year of suggestions
What is described in the original post reflects my experience since season 2. It was fun the first time, but now the development seems to be treading water. But if it is not fun to play one character, why would someone create three of them to perform the same rotations that they get bored of after a week?
My actual point is, this thread here is not guilty of being angry or hyperbolic, not even close. Instead of being unfair in this case, read it again and you will find that it is one of the most polite examples on this forum.
I guarantee if we had the chance to ask our devs about this, then they would totally agree that they want to provide content that is appealing and that doesnt get stale, especially in a live service game that revolves around seasons and MTX. More active players, more money.
It was mentioned in a previous interview that the teams approach is to please the whole range of player types. But this is very very difficult, if not impossible to get right. Games that try to achieve this run the risk of ending up shallow rather than deep & interesting.
I mean the two juggernaut examples in the room are D2 and PoE.
Different things will appeal to different people so of course there’s no one right answer, but here’s two simple things. Item chase and wealth accumulation.
D2 didn’t have incredibly robust endgame either, but it had a better item chase and the ability to accumulate wealth through the rune system.
PoE has many end game activities, some might say too many, and also lets you accumulate wealth through the orb system. There are unique items for days here.
And when I say uniques they don’t necessarily have to be unique base type, just something that is not in the common drop pool.
D4’s “wealth accumulation” of gold based trading just isn’t interesting. D4 also doesn’t have the item chase. How it was in the beginning and endless grind for mythics is not the right answer either. We need more, interesting ideas (more unique’s I guess), but also a base game that doesn’t need those things to be enjoyed.
That way you could actually have a hunt for things to change your character like Aspects, Uniques, Mythics, etc it could be interesting. The problem is this game without those things is doodoo. So instead we get base level abilities that we increase the damage of though small incremental upgrades that lead to the character feeling samey throughout its journey.
The other thing that the other games do well (IMO) with the items is side progression of alts. Getting uniques, sets, etc that you can pass to alts. Outside mythics and that one undercity this doesn’t really happen in D4. I like getting items that make me interested in rolling alts.
If you’ve been playing this entire week then I’d say you’ve got some good time out of the season. With a lacking endgame D4 usually lasts a week or two for me each season too.
The only exception being season 4 loot reborn which lasted me a month because I loved the itemization changes.
I actually like the duration of the seasonal content a lot now. I feel like I am completely done with everything relevant just as I would have gotten bored anyway
I definitely don’t want seasons to be artificially drawn out and extended in the future.
