Echo of Lillith Spikes are just BS artificial difficulty

They really can’t make a good challenging boss with good mechanics, they just make bosses that are wiped in an instant or a boss that spams an very hard to avoid one hit move.

This is not dark souls, there is no eye frames and dodges are limited. I doing good damage to her and im barely taking damage from other attacks, I dodge it once, twice, 3 times she keeps going, apparently im not supposed to play the mechanics in this game, Im supposed to make a super cheesy OP build to wipe her health before she gets to the spikes phase.

This is horrible boss design and tbh I dont care anymore about beating her cause she is not about skill, just cheese


the fail part about spikes is a i loose alot of space to avoid them because her body is taking up 40 % of the fighting area and the missiles go behind her. she is already dead but i dont kill her fast enough to stop phase 2 all together. so she jumps around with zero life while i try to dodge these instant death spikes and get vision blocked OR the platform kills me before it animates it falling like the timing of the drop is off to the animation.


This boss is a movement check and a dps check, learn to adapt. You would have been a poorly skilled WoW raid player.


Could not of said it better homie

I do Tier 100 dungeons easily, I think my damage and stats are fine, if you played any game that needed actual skill to fight bosses you will understand how bad this boss design is


Well Lilith is a gimmick boss.

Before S2 with enough DPS you can make her skip all her mechanics.

Now its best if you have some type of immunity. If you dont then you have to dodge 1-2 waves. This implies you can zerg Lilith instantly and then avoid one wave. Every wave has a pattern but it can be hard to see but sooner or later you can do it. Second phase is similar, zerg her and do mechanics sooner or later you will do it.

Second option is make extremely tanky character Druids/Barbs can survive her “one shots” but it needs a lot then you can ignore her mechanics. For Sorc/nec I recommend lowering CD of immunities and just immune the mechanics. Rogue needs to dodge it no way around that.

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Dark Souls rarely has “one shots” you should play them, its more of a need to learn patterns or think of how to to abuse weaknesses/or outlevel in worst case.
Better play Sekiro, fantastic rhythm game and no one shots at all.


One shots is not my main problem, its how movement and hitboxes work in this game, also the fact that she just spams its. I played all souls games multiple times btw

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Phase 1 is not really a problem once you learn to bait her positioning with the blood waves. I still get gibbed if her patterns change for some reason but I can avoid everything in P1 about 9/10 times now. Once she spawns the adds, hug an edge (I like staying in the lower right or left) and try to face out of the circle. Watch the telegraph for the waves and you’ll figure out where to run and avoid them. It just take a bit of practice.

Phase 2 is a crapshow, though. Unless you have stupid movement speed, it’s just not possible to avoid the flaming skulls of doom. I have the feeling that the mechanics in P2 will click like the P1 stuff did but it hasn’t yet. I’ll get it done before the next season, for sure, as it’s the final task I need to 100% the journey. I’ll roll a barb if I can’t speed up my necro’s wheelchair enough to clear it.

As somebody who’s played ARPGs since 1997 and has beaten every Path of Exile boss, I can firmly say that Uber Lilith is one of the most horribly designed bosses I’ve ever seen. There is a massive difference between well-designed difficulty and poorly designed difficulty. Uber Lilith firmly falls into the latter category. It’s even worse after S3 bugged it out and makes it impossible to skip her 1 shot missiles in her second phase, that move faster than the player does in an ever-shrinking boss arena.

This basically sums up the boss as of S3:


t100 dungeon is a joke, learn to move.

“one shots” in any game is just lazy design; it’s that simple.

Not not talking when something dose so much damage, but in time and gear you can bring that down to reasonable. I’m talking ‘1-shot’ instant death bypassing all gear.


Oh cool I didn’t know that this game is WoW. Why does it say Diablo 4 at the top?

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If they’re implemented in a fair manner, they’re okay. Having every mechanic in Uber Lilith 1 shot you, while having poor red-on-red telegraphs whose hitboxes don’t match the graphics, while being semi-random (the waves), and moving significantly faster than your character, however, is overly punishing, unfun design. On top of that, the fight has no worthwhile rewards.

Sirus from PoE is a much better pinnacle boss. You can recognize when he’ll do his “die beam” that will 1 shot all but the tankiest of characters, and he has exclusive drops while also giving you seasonal progression upon completion.


The game is very restricted in movement, if the game had fluent movement then this would be ok, but characters still move like its 2001

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Big issue on boss like lilith is camera slow travelling to follow your movement. It’s neither fixed on boss nor on your character. On my rogue it’s often that i lose track of my position after a dash because of slow camera travelling latency. You think you’re still on center of screen but you are not, until camera recenter. It feels really messy. Chose an option either camera follow you either it stays centered on boss.
On malphas this latency is so important you can actually count in seconds.
Another reason to chease mecanic with oneshot build.


You have to burn her down before she does her first jump.

Whenever she would make the jump, I would just dodge out of bounds and get it over with.

The problem is that the colliders on those spike particle effects are way too big. It’s so stupid.

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Lilith has a terrible design

It has badly telegraphed one shot mechanics and its like that because apparently they cant make challenging content without such bad design decision

I have played plenty of challenging games, this kind of challenge has always being the cheap and lazy way to achieve such challenge

Bah, but you are wrong OP. The fight is indeed challenging. It is a challenge to remember her timings and it is a challenge to execute them perfectly, thus making it challenging. EVERYTHING that kills you will be making you unfun, so your ranting is rather pointless…

What you should’ve titled your post is - I’m not a fan of this kind of difficulty, it is hard for me and i want even this content to be in cheat mode so i can finally kill her…
The original titles of Diablo games were all about - the game to kill the player… But Diablo 3 kinda missed that mark, after nerfing Inferno difficulty. The game needs such content so to be named Diablo. What it needs is more of this kind, maybe not 1 shots, but very close to that! Only the gearest of gears chars to be able to do it!

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There was NOTHING in Diablo 1 or 2 that was even close to one shotting you

If anything, what the OP is proposing would take D4 closer to what D1 was than the current Lilith is

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