The combat of ARPGs is extremely basic and repetitive despite it comprising most of what you do. Improving it is the single most logical direction for the advancement of this genre, which proves to not be very popular despite having its fans. Diablo IV, lacking the complexity of some competitors or any other compelling feature, stands to benefit disproportionately given the resources and cachet it has. The linked post contains the most potent way to go about innovating this aspect, in my opinion, but it may not be a realistic first step. Given feedback from multiple posters as well as some other things I’ve noticed there is a more realistic alternative.
The implementation of runes in Diablo 3 extended what skills did - you ended up with a handful of different varieties or forms of a skill. People have indicated they liked this sort of variety and there is an affinity for runes themselves. Well, you implement this slightly differently and you end up with the same dynamic concept I’ve been promoting. As opposed to applying one rune to a skill out of combat you enable players to apply one rune to a skill in combat. This would work by remapping the skill variants onto the normal action buttons once a particular skill has been pressed. There are two ways to go about executing the actions - the initial skill button doing nothing except pulling up the variations which would then execute the skill or the initial skill button executing the skill and then a variation button applying an effect. We’ll go with the latter.
Let’s look at a single example. Teleport, classic skill, had five runes in D3. In D4 there is somewhat of a similar customization represented by a choice between two twigs at the very edge of the skill tree - damage reduction or crackling energy hitting two additional enemies. Let’s go beyond these passive modifiers (I realize some items and aspects apply changes too), keeping in mind this is a lightning specialized skill. So you press the teleport button and teleport to a location, then four of your normal buttons are mapped onto the following runes:
Crackling Overload - Expend up to 6 crackling energy charges dealing their total damage in a sizable radius.
Wormhole - After casting Teleport you have 3 seconds to teleport one additional time.
Fracture - Summon 3 moving decoys with taunt in a wide area for 5 seconds.
The fourth button is reserved to return to your normal abilities with the runes still being accessible through the teleport button. Runewords are combinations of runes. In this implementation they would be formed by a second layer of runes. So depending on which rune you have used after teleport you get another set of three options.
For Crackling Overload… come to think of it as these are runes I don’t know why the hell I’m naming them, so I’ll just describe them:
Stun enemies in area for 3 seconds.
Make enemies in area vulnerable for 5 seconds.
Apply chain lightnings or charged bolts depending on which you have equipped.
For Wormhole:
Gain 40% movement speed for 5 seconds.
Double crackling energy damage for 5 seconds.
Gain 40% crowd control reduction for 5 seconds.
For Fracture (all three options are available for 5 seconds):
Teleport to first decoy, consuming it.
Teleport to second decoy, consuming it.
Teleport to third decoy, consuming it.
You get the idea. This active real time option-based version of runes and runewords is meant to take significant out-of-combat choices and move them in-combat so that a player can make a bigger difference in how they fight rather than just in what their build, items, and power level are. That’s the fundamental goal. Obviously some types of skills like basic, core, and mastery that are spammable are probably incompatible with this feature but there are enough cooldown abilities for more interesting gameplay to be added to characters. I don’t know if the example I just gave is the greatest but people can give a shot at coming up with their own examples. I reiterate that I find the most potential in what I describe in the other post at the top but this idea retains the key concept while being easier and more likely to implement as it works off pre-existing skills and the levels are fewer.
Perhaps I missed it, but you go over the execution but not how to obtain said runes. Would these just be tacked onto the existing skill tree? A separate slot we have to fill by finding these out in the world? A rework of the paragon boards?
I kind of have no idea here. I think there would be too few for loot drops, too basic, and players would really need them specific to their builds. So my guess is as good as yours. The three options you provide seem equally valid. In terms of loot, I could see these being attached to completing some dungeons so that players can target the specific ones they need. It’s also interesting what types of skills these can be attached to. For sorcerer, defensive and conjuration, and you can add ultimate skills too. You can’t really do this on constantly spammable skills, too much to ask from players or it involves deeper adaptation of those skills.
If we go by tweaking the main skill, let’s use Teleport in your example. We could go one of two ways. We could change the initial option from the start, so instead of being forced to take Enhanced Teleport there could be your other options for example, each having their own branch of 2 more options. Or force the player to take Enhanced Teleport, and just add your options on top of the original 2. In either case I feel Enhanced Teleport would also have to be changed, or added as a branched off option to one of the initial choices.
Going the separate slot route, you could have some fun with this. It wouldn’t be tacked onto armor, more so I feel it would be better tacked onto the actual skill, so when you bring up your Skill list in game to add them to your hotkey bar, similar to how a Sorc chooses an Enchanted skill. Your idea of finding them through dungeons would work, just add it as an additional reward along with the appropriate aspect for your codex. You could only get Sorc runes from dungeons that gave you a Sorc aspect for example. Depends on the number of added options you’d have of course, adjustments might need to be made, but just a starting point for now.
Now with Paragon nodes, this might be a little more tricky. It would offer more diversity, but I also feel the paragon boards themselves would need to be reworked. You wouldn’t want them as glyphs, probably just rare nodes. It would make the player really think about what they want though, and offer another layer of complexity of choosing your options in the paragon board. Depending on the main option you could have other smaller options around it that would enhance it just enough to want to invest into them.
Hard to say honestly. I’d say all options have their pros and cons.
No. It should work like Blood Powers and be an entirely separate system. The Runes would each have unique benefits, but combining them differently gives you Runewords.
8 total slots
Runewords would be 2, 4, and 6 Runes long giving you a Maximum or (4) 2 Runewords or (1) 6 Word and (1) 2 Word. Alternatively, 4x4, 4x2x2 would also be viable.
We do not want them applying to gear and just creating another Unique making the Aspect system even worse.
In addition to Runewords, Gems need to be more creative. Allow players multiple Affixes to choose from between the colored Gems. Get rid of restrictions on items. Rubies: +Overpower Damage, Fire Resistance, Max Health in any Socket. More Affixes added like Max Resource, Resource Generation, Ultimate Cooldown etc.
To add to this, we really need a Belt Slot added. The current Potion Modifiers would be added to the Belt Slot. The Affixes that can roll on Belt Slots would be mostly all Utility in nature. Shrine Duration, Berserking Duration, +Healing, +Max Potions, +Potion Find etc. It would have +All Resists and a secondary Elemental Resist. It would have 1 Gem Slot and no Armor Value. You would only be able to use Utility, Movement, or Resource Aspects in the slot giving WAY more flexibility to builds, especially since we are leaning heavily toward Uniques and Uber Uniques taking up multiple Aspect slots.
String of Ears Uber Unique would be added with Belt release.
The point is for a full set of buttons to be available to the player. The selection decisions should be made in combat, assuming the full set of options doesn’t exceed the buttons available. If these runes were to be incorporated in the skill tree something like D3 where they’re all unlocked as you level between say 55-90 makes sense. As for the paragon board, they should all be interpreted as something good and available to have. I think if trade-offs are involved there then the likelihood of narrow use is increased, which is undesirable. One of the reasons why I’ve always had the other stuff drop as loot is that you should have a full set of at least buttons filled eventually.
Frankly, I don’t care for this childish crap. Call it an order of rune syllables if it’s going to trigger you less. What concerns me primarily is the gameplay.
It’s carrotfeets. The problem with blood powers and really everything the Diablo IV team does is passivity and constancy. Most of this stuff doesn’t change your gameplay (although it may make it more “viable” or stronger), and the rare aspect that does (including uniques) applies a constant change (e.g. teleport sucking enemies in). A quick google search indicates, after an apparently unsuccessful initial attempt, that they intend to implement runes and runewords. I can see the benefit of changing math, altering gameplay, enabling different builds, and when you’re dealing with relatively low IQ gamers getting people excited. But it is unlikely for anything to transcend what imo is the biggest weakness of the genre - doing the same extremely basic thing over and over again. What this game’s future development may do is give you more things to chase and a greater variety, but in the end your playstyle will always be tantamount to derping around in what is supposed to be some sort of grotesquely ironic power fantasy. There’s no power in being an idiot, just an indulgent illusion. Why I’m failing to get this point across I can only guess. In the end you end up making a bunch of losers richer and wasting a lot of your time. At least demand that they make these games good and invigorating.
Yes, Einstein, everyone knows, including the Diablo IV team currently working on them. It was already done 20 years ago.
Lol, “creative” here equaling “useful”. You don’t want creativity, you just want power.
This is quintessential gamer logic right here.
I get what you want. You want more useful things, and you may just get it over time. Blizzard, although they’re mediocre going on inept, are not as braindead as the game they’ve created. In the bigger picture while some “ARPG fans” will be content the ceiling of these games will remain low. But, they can make enough money to justify the whole experience (up the chain of bosses and ultimately “investors”). In the end money fixes everything. The lesson of Diablo.
I am not triggered, everybody has their own opinion.
I just don’t see why something should be added to Diablo IV that has already been done in Diablo II.
I don’t think I personally would find value in button bloat. Feels a bit like having 35 totems on a shaman in wow. Theory is good, but in practice, only a couple of them were ever used with any regularity and they often made the class unapproachable when power was given to them.
The words runes and runewords are “flavor”, nominal labels.
One, I love the use of terms. Two, there is no “button bloat” with button remapping, there is some “mind bloat” which I realize is the most challenging type of “bloat” for many of you. It is objectively shocking how little some of you can keep up with, and this coming from someone who can be slow himself.
This system is much too complicated and would probably be a nightmare to program. I dont see it working. What they could do instead is just have each skill have 3 or 4 things you can slot in it like gems in POE that alter the skill permanently how you want. Like the old d3 rune system but multiple choices. It just cant be this complicated where buttons are being remapped and waiting inputs and stuff.
Urza, what sort of complexity do you actually have an understanding of? Also, how many hundreds of millions and billions do you make to know what is a nightmare and what isn’t, and what works and what doesn’t? You may be onto something in Blizzard forgetting how to innovate and provide some novelty to players all too willing to reward them, but let’s not mix total mediocrity up with actual feasibility.
…Or like the new season that is about to commence in a few hours? How do you think those numbskulls at Blizzard actually came up with this idea?
What are the inputs, Urza? We’re not talking about Schrodinger’s god.damn cat here.
Cat is either dead or alive. 2 outcomes. You got buttons remapping other buttons temporarily waiting for inputs. That seems like a nightmare to me. Sorry you dont like my response. I just call it like I see it. But hey I can just disengage as well if you want to be combative. Toodles
Unlike Schrodinger’s cat that is apparently both dead and alive buttons are remapped based on a singular completely known event/button press. If that seems like a nightmare to you lock yourself in your room and never come out. Toodles.
Yeah… i read multiple posts about bringing back runewords like in D2.
People wanting a Diablo II 2.0.
So i have to admit that i didn’t go any further then the title of your post
Normally i do read posts, this time i didn’t while your post deserves reading.
I do prefer the skills the way they are and the tree the way it is in Diablo IV.
The uber skills you are suggesting don’t really to fit in Diablo IV IMO.
The problem with blood powers and really everything the Diablo IV team does is passivity and constancy. Most of this stuff doesn’t change your gameplay (although it may make it more “viable” or stronger), and the rare aspect that does (including uniques) applies a constant change (e.g. teleport sucking enemies in). A quick google search indicates, after an apparently unsuccessful initial attempt, that they intend to implement runes and runewords. I can see the benefit of changing math, altering gameplay, enabling different builds, and when you’re dealing with relatively low IQ gamers getting people excited. But it is unlikely for anything to transcend what imo is the biggest weakness of the genre - doing the same extremely basic thing over and over again. What this game’s future development may do is give you more things to chase and a greater variety, but in the end your playstyle will always be tantamount to derping around in what is supposed to be some sort of grotesquely ironic power fantasy. There’s no power in being an idiot, just an indulgent illusion. Why I’m failing to get this point across I can only guess. In the end you end up making a bunch of losers richer and wasting a lot of your time. At least demand that they make these games good and invigorating.